Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b8) with ESMTP id 321462 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:18:41 -0400 Received-SPF: error receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i6EJI6Ns005925 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001c01c469d7$4b737740$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:18:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C469B5.C423E3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C469B5.C423E3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark,=20 I considered them in my early days when I was fighting high temps. But, = once I solved that I have not really considered them. The only person I = am aware of using them is Bill Eslick. You should contact him for = details, but my impression was that while they appear to work in aiding = cooling, they also acted like a speed brake dropping over 10MPH from his = cruise. I believe he also found it very difficult to close them down = against the air flow out of the cowl when he tried to close them to = minimize drag. =20 But, again contact Bill for the full skinny. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop Ed, What are your thoughts on cowl flaps. Do you use them? =20 Mark S. At 02:32 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">=20 I first read about the limits on liquids for the Rotary in the = Racing Beat Technical Catalog at least as far back as 1992 when I first = received one. The limits cited were 210F on the oil (after the cooler) = and 180F on the coolant (as it left the engine). These limits were = apparently set for the older models of the engine and apparently were = fairly critical for those blocks (pre 1986). Changes in the casting and = passages since then appear to have given a bit more grace with = temperatures. =20 I, Tracy and a number of folks have hit 240F on the oil for short = periods 3 - 5minutes (in my case) with no apparently harm to the engine. = I also have hit 220F with the coolant again with no immediate adverse = affects (who can say long term). =20 I personally like for my oil to not exceed 220F and coolant to stay = at 210F or lower for the climbout on a hot day. Cooler days sees around = 200F for both on high power climbout. Cruise 175-180F. =20 =20 All depends on OAT as that can shift the temps dramatically. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:51 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop Al,=20 Thanks for shedding some light on it. Both reasons make sense, = and I was probably told why to star6t with, but didn't remember.=20 =20 Steve=20 =20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Al Gietzen=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 12:53 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop=20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop=20 =20 Kelly,=20 I would tend to agree, but according to information I received = from other on this group, I was told that the common practice was to = measure the coolant at its hottest point, and oil at it's coolest point. = =20 =20 It's logical place to measure the coolant at its hottest point = since that is its limiting value. If you have coolant exceeding the = boiling point anywhere (except for the nucleate boiling at internal = surfaces) you have a problem. =20 =20 The limiting factor on the oil temp in the rotary is its ability = to cool the rotors/seals, so it's the temp at which it returns to the = engine. This limit is generally accepted to be about 220F, but could be = exceeded some for short periods and probably not be a problem. The = limit on the oil itself (breakdown) is higher; considerably higher for = synthetics.=20 =20 At least that's my take on it.=20 =20 Al=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C469B5.C423E3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
 
I considered them in my early days when = I was=20 fighting high temps.  But, once I solved that I have not really = considered=20 them.  The only person I am aware of using them is Bill = Eslick.  You=20 should contact him for details, but my impression was that while they = appear to=20 work in aiding cooling, they also acted like a speed brake dropping over = 10MPH=20 from his cruise.  I believe he also found it very difficult to = close them=20 down against the air flow out of the cowl when he tried to close them to = minimize drag. 
 
But, again contact Bill for the full=20 skinny.
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 = 2:46=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New = Scoop

Ed,
What are your thoughts on cowl = flaps. =20 Do you use them? 

Mark S.


At 02:32 PM = 7/14/2004 -0400,=20 you wrote:
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
I first read about the  limits on liquids for the = Rotary in the=20 Racing Beat Technical Catalog at least as far back as 1992 when I = first=20 received one.  The limits cited were 210F on the oil (after the = cooler)=20 and 180F on the coolant (as it left the engine).  These limits = were=20 apparently set for the older models of the engine and apparently = were fairly=20 critical for those blocks (pre 1986).  Changes in the casting = and=20 passages since then appear to have given a bit more grace with=20 temperatures.
 
I, Tracy and a number of folks have hit 240F on the oil for = short=20 periods 3 - 5minutes (in my case) with no apparently harm to the=20 engine.  I also have hit 220F with the coolant again with no = immediate=20 adverse affects (who can say long term).
 
I = personally like for my=20 oil to not exceed 220F and coolant to stay at 210F or lower for the = climbout=20 on a hot day.  Cooler days sees around 200F for both on high = power=20 climbout.  Cruise 175-180F. 
 
All = depends on OAT as=20 that can shift the temps dramatically.
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered
Matthews,=20 NC=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Steve Brooks=20
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:51 PM=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop

Al,=20
Thanks for shedding some light on it.  Both reasons make = sense,=20 and I was probably told why to star6t with, but didn=92t=20 remember.=20
=20
Steve=20
=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On = Behalf Of=20 Al Gietzen=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 12:53 PM=20
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop
=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop
=20
Kelly,=20
I would tend to agree, but according to information I received = from=20 other on this group, I was told that the common practice was to = measure=20 the coolant at its hottest point, and oil at it=92s coolest = point. =20
=20
It=92s logical place to measure the coolant at its hottest = point since=20 that is its limiting value.  If you have coolant exceeding = the=20 boiling point anywhere (except for the nucleate boiling at = internal=20 surfaces) you have a problem. 
=20
The limiting factor on the oil temp in the rotary is its = ability to=20 cool the rotors/seals, so it=92s the temp at which it returns to = the=20 engine.  This limit is generally accepted to be about 220F, = but could=20 be exceeded some for short periods and probably not be a = problem. =20 The limit on the oil itself (breakdown) is  higher; = considerably=20 higher for synthetics.=20
=20
At least that=92s my take on it.=20
=20
Al=20
=20
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