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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-320478@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:23:38 -0400
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Steve, during climbout my oil coolant temps may get to 210F.  On a 70 deg
day they will stay at 200F or below.  In cruise they are both between
175-180F.  On cooler days they may drop down to the 160F range.  But, we
have it a bit easier with the airflow directly into the inlets.

Ed

Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Brooks" <steve@tsisp.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:31 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop


> John,
> I did have a fairly good flight one time, but only after adding an adjunct
> to the scoop.  Before that, the temps would climb up, what I think is too
> high, especially the oil.
>
> I've been flying only in the mornings when the temperature is <80.  The
last
> flight the coolant was OK (about 200) but in just climbing to 1500' AGL
the
> oil was 220.  That was at a 110-120 kt. Climb.  After leveling off, and
> powering back to about 4100 RPM's, the oil dropped to about 210.  OAT for
> that flight was right at 80 F.
> At level flight, when I add power, the temperatures start climbing.  I did
> move the intake air back from the plenum to the scoop for the intercooler,
> which did help the last time, but I haven't flown since then.  Tomorrow
the
> OAT is suppose to hit 100F, so I won't be flying then either.
>
> After adding the vortex generators the temperatures were definitely lower
> oil 220 down from 240, and coolant 200 down from 210-215.  So they did
> definitely help.
>
> I am curious about what your temperatures are running.  What do you see in
> climb ? and what do you see in cruise ?
>
> I read the reports from the RV guys, and the norm there seems to be 180
(or
> less) for the coolant, and about the same for the oil.  I've been looking
at
> 220 oil and 215 coolant as the redline.  Maybe I'm wrong.
>
> Steve
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]  On
> Behalf Of John Slade
> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:29 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Scoop
>
> Steve,
> This is just my 2c, so take it or leave it but....I think you're going the
> wrong way here.
>
> We have almost identical engines on the same airplane. If anything, mine
has
> a little more power. I have no armpit scoops and am using only the plans
> NACA for the air intake, yet my cooling is fine. Why the difference?
First -
> is there a difference? From the numbers you published it seemed that your
> temps were just a little higher than mine, but if I recall correctly, you
> were getting stable temperatures while flying once you added the belly
> vortex generators. Are you certain that what you have/had is inadequate?
>
> I approached this on the basis that, so long as I can taxi for a while,
then
> take off and climb at a reasonable rate on a hot day, I'm happy. I don't
> mind backing off on the throttle a little until I get to height. There's
> always going to be a compromise between drag and cooling. I get the
> impression that you're leaning too far toward cooling at the ultimate
> expense of your cruise performance.
>
> Greg Richer came at the problem with lots of big ugly (sorry Greg) scoops,
> and I think he hit a speed wall at around 160kts. He was planning to cut
the
> scoops back, then got the idea for a turbine instead. My approach was the
> opposite - NACA scoop only, and every trick in the book to move the air. I
> think the turbo heat shield and augmentation must be helping a lot. I'm
not
> sure about the fan, and am thinking about taking it out. The plenum
> approach, with a BIG rad and two oil coolers is probably contributing as
> well.
>
> I know that adding more scoop is the easiest way to get airborne, but I'm
> wondering if you'll regret it down the road.
>
> Like I said - just my 2c.
> Regards,
> John Slade (anyone want their turbo tested?)
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
> > Behalf Of Steve Brooks
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 4:28 PM
> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] New Scoop
> >
> >
> > Ed, and others -
> >
> > Attached are some photos of the new scoop I'm building to replace
> > my old new
> > scoop.  As you can see the new one actually has less intake area, but
> > extends further in order to get outside of the boundary layer.
> >
> > I don't want the intake any larger than it has to be, but I want to make
> > sure also that it is sufficient to allow for enough air flow.  My old
new
> > scoop did improve cooling, but as I found out, it was only marginal.
> >
> > The new scoop, which is patterned after a P51 style scoop, not only gets
> > outside of the boundary layer air, but also excludes it, with the dam
that
> > you see at the bottom.  Well, actually it will be at the top, once it is
> > mounted under the belly.  It also gives me an expansion area once
> > inside the
> > scoop.
> >
> > Using the program that Al sent me, the boundary area calculated
> > out to about
> > 1.625-1.75 inches +/- depending on speed.
> >
> > The scoop intake measures 10.75" inside at the top (narrowest)
> > and 14.75" at
> > the widest point average = 12.75"
> > Height of the inside of the scoop measures 4.25"
> > This should equal about 54.18 sq in of area.
> >
> > The inside of the scoop sits exactly 2" from the bottom of the
> > fuselage, and
> > overall height to the outside of the scoop is about 6.6"  again,
measured
> > from the fuselage bottom.
> >
> > I haven't glassed the scoop yet, other than on one side to help
> > with gluing
> > it together.
> >
> > I am interested in any feedback concerning the size of the intake area.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steve Brooks
> > Cozy MKIV N75CZ
> > Turbo Rotary
> >
>
>
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>
>
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