Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b5) with SMTP id 142045 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 18:56:53 -0400 X-UNTD-OriginStamp: MJX/NhAS4UNn7QTm17yF8Dm0awEQCRB4bo5YJ32t/8exIaYmAP8EpQ== Received: (from jschuber@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id JXGRUFAZ; Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:55:35 PDT To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2004 18:10:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Not my best landing Message-ID: <20040606.190006.-366943.4.jschuber@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_01ef.5a5c.2415 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-6,7-8,12-20,22-215,216-32767 From: Terry L Schubert This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_01ef.5a5c.2415 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good for you. The Cozys I have seen that damage on usually had heavy noses. I don't know what your loading was like. The Cozy uses Rutan's original Long-EZ lay up schedule but carries FAR more weight. When the nose comes down it can delaminate that side skin. Terry Schubert Central States Association Newsletter Editor On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:47:28 -0400 "Steve Brooks" writes: > Terry, > Thanks for the advice. I will definitely do the coin test to see if > there > is any damage. The nose didn't hit very hard, so I hope that there > isn't > any. I think that gear was in the process of extending when it hit, > which > mitigated the damage. > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Terry L Schubert > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 5:22 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Not my best landing > > Dear Steve, > > I guess you are feeling badly enough about your landing. I did mine > on > the 3rd flight. PLEASE do not believe you "have it out of your > system"! > > My next gear up landing was at OSH with 15,000 witnesses and a 20kt > cross > wind. "There are those who have and those that will and those that > will > land gear up AGAIN!" > > When a Cozy lands gear up it puts considerable pressure on the side > skin > under the canard. I suggest you do a coin tap test for > delaminations in > the area directly under the canard to about a foot below the > canard. > That is the usual damage area. Damage is not noticeable until you > do > that. > > Landing distractions will continue to occur. I recommend you get > that > warning system & AEX made fool proof. > > Best wishes, > > > Terry Schubert > Central States Association > Newsletter Editor > > > > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:19:14 -0400 "Steve Brooks" > writes: > > I made my 6th flight today, and after flying for .8 hours, came in > to > > land > > after I noticed that I had a vacuum failure, and did not put the > > nose gear > > down. Talk about running my day, it definitely was not good, but > > could have > > been much worse. > > > > I was evidently distracted by wondering about what happened to > the > > vacuum, > > instead of doing my landing checklist. I was worried that I could > > have lost > > a belt, so I was keeping a watchful eye on the temperatures. I > > did, > > however, turn on the boost pump, and check fuel. I haven't been > > used to > > having to put the gear down, and coupled with the distraction, > and > > stupidity, was the formal for a problem. > > > > I came in high and a little on the fast side, in fact, I couldn't > > figure out > > why I wasn't descending, and bleeding speed. How about the fact > > that the > > gear was up. I was deploying both rudders, and marveling over > how > > well that > > worked to get the altitude problem solved. Apparently the AEX > was > > in the > > process of extending the gear when I touched down, which probably > > saved me > > from allot more damage. I landed a little faster than I had > been, > > and sat > > it down without letting it float along like all of my other > > landings. If I > > had landed like I did before, the extra 4 or 5 seconds could have > > let the > > gear get all the way down...but it didn't. > > > > Damage was really no too bad. Ground off the face of the landing > > gear strut > > about 1/8" ground the front of the castoring nose wheel casting > flat > > in one > > spot, and ground off about half of the hockey puck. As soon as I > > realized > > what had happened, I pulled back all the way on the elevator, and > > hit the > > nose gear switch, which was already turning. The nose came up and > I > > was > > still rolling at maybe 20-30 MPH. I pulled off on a taxiway, > shut > > down, and > > got out to inspect the damage. I expected the worst, but really > was > > pretty > > minimal. I decided that everything was good enough to taxi back > to > > the > > hanger, where I pulled the nose cover to check for any other > > damage. > > Everything inside looked fine. The nose lift is fine. The > landing > > gear > > strut will have to be replaced, as well as the lower casting on > the > > nose > > wheel assembly. I may forget allot of things in the future, but > > I'll bet > > that landing gear won't be one of them. > > > > I pulled the engine cowling, and the belt on the smog pump that I > > use for > > vacuum was fine, so I still don't know the cause of the vacuum > > problem. I > > need to pull the canard, and I/P cover anyway to troubleshoot a > NAV > > system > > problem, so I'll get to the bottom of it when I do that. I'll > have > > plenty > > of time while I'm waiting on parts. > > The only damage to the nose at all was a couple of cracks in the > > micro > > around the hockey puck. I'll have to sand it down to get the > rest > > of the > > puck off anyways, so that isn't a big deal. > > > > The good news is that my noise in the right main wheel is fixed. > I > > took it > > apart, really didn't find anything, but I repacked the bearings, > and > > put it > > all back together and the noise is gone. I guess that it must > have > > been an > > alignment issue with the disk or something. I was careful to > snug > > the bolts > > with the same torque while mounting the disk to the wheel. I > think > > that may > > have been the issue. > > > > Also the engine continues to run superbly. I still am running > > warmer than I > > like, but I have a plan to remedy that. The rotary engine is so > > smooth and > > quiet that you forget it's running almost. > > > > Steve Brooks > > Cozy MKIV N75CZ > > Turbo rotary > > > > > > > > > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > ----__JNP_000_01ef.5a5c.2415 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good for you.
 
The Cozys I have seen that damage on usually had heavy noses. &= nbsp; I=20 don't know what your loading was like.   The Cozy uses Rutan's=20 original Long-EZ lay up schedule but carries FAR more=20 weight.  When the nose comes down it can delaminate that side skin.
 

Terry Schubert
Central States Association
Newsletter=20 Editor
 
 
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 17:47:28 -0400 "Steve Brooks" <steve@tsisp.com> writes:
>=20 Terry,
> Thanks for the advice.  I will definitely do the coin = test=20 to see if
> there
> is any damage.  The nose didn't hit = very=20 hard, so I hope that there
> isn't
> any.  I think that = gear=20 was in the process of extending when it hit,
> which
> = mitigated=20 the damage.
>
> Steve
>
>  -----Original=20 Message-----
> From:=20         Rotary motors in aircraft=20
> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.= net] =20 On
> Behalf Of Terry L Schubert
>=20 Sent:        Sunday, June 06, 2004 = 5:22=20 PM
> To:        Rotary motors= in=20 aircraft
>=20 Subject:        [FlyRotary] Re: Not= my=20 best landing
>
> Dear Steve,
>
> I guess you are= =20 feeling badly enough about your landing.  I did mine
> on
&= gt;=20 the 3rd flight.  PLEASE do not believe you "have it out of your
&= gt;=20 system"!
>
> My next gear up landing was at OSH with 15,000=20 witnesses and a 20kt
> cross
> wind.  "There are those = who=20 have and those that will and those that
> will
> land gear up= =20 AGAIN!"
>
> When a Cozy lands gear up it puts considerable = pressure=20 on the side
> skin
> under the canard.  I suggest you do = a=20 coin tap test for
> delaminations in
> the area directly under= the=20 canard to about a foot below the
> canard.
> That is the usual= =20 damage area.  Damage is not noticeable until you
> do
>=20 that.
>
> Landing distractions will continue to occur.  I= =20 recommend you get
> that
> warning system & AEX made fool= =20 proof.
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
> Terry=20 Schubert
> Central States Association
> Newsletter Editor
&= gt;=20
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 12:19:14 -0400 "Steve Brooks"= =20 <steve@tsisp.com>
>=20 writes:
> > I made my 6th flight today, and after flying for .8 = hours,=20 came in
> to
> > land
> > after I noticed that I = had a=20 vacuum failure, and did not put the
> > nose gear
> >=20 down.  Talk about running my day, it definitely was not good, but
&= gt;=20 > could have
> > been much worse.
> >
> > I = was=20 evidently distracted by wondering about what happened to
> the
&= gt;=20 > vacuum,
> > instead of doing my landing checklist.  I = was=20 worried that I could
> > have lost
> > a belt, so I was=20 keeping a watchful eye on the temperatures.  I
> > did,
&= gt;=20 > however, turn on the boost pump, and check fuel.  I haven't=20 been
> > used to
> > having to put the gear down, and = coupled=20 with the distraction,
> and
> > stupidity, was the formal = for a=20 problem.
> >
> > I came in high and a little on the fast = side,=20 in fact, I couldn't
> > figure out
> > why I wasn't=20 descending, and bleeding speed.  How about the fact
> > that= =20 the
> > gear was up.  I was deploying both rudders, and = marveling=20 over
> how
> > well that
> > worked to get the = altitude=20 problem solved.  Apparently the AEX
> was
> > in=20 the
> > process of extending the gear when I touched down, which=20 probably
> > saved me
> > from allot more damage.  I= =20 landed a little faster than I had
> been,
> > and sat
&= gt;=20 > it down without letting it float along like all of my other
> &= gt;=20 landings.  If I
> > had landed like I did before, the extra 4= or 5=20 seconds could have
> > let the
> > gear get all the way=20 down...but it didn't.
> >
> > Damage was really no too=20 bad.  Ground off the face of the landing
> > gear strut
&= gt;=20 > about 1/8" ground the front of the castoring nose wheel casting
&= gt;=20 flat
> > in one
> > spot, and ground off about half of = the=20 hockey puck.  As soon as I
> > realized
> > what had= =20 happened, I pulled back all the way on the elevator, and
> > hit=20 the
> > nose gear switch, which was already turning.  The = nose=20 came up and
> I
> > was
> > still rolling at maybe= =20 20-30 MPH.  I pulled off on a taxiway,
> shut
> > down= ,=20 and
> > got out to inspect the damage.  I expected the worst,= but=20 really
> was
> > pretty
> > minimal.  I = decided=20 that everything was good enough to taxi back
> to
> >=20 the
> > hanger, where I pulled the nose cover to check for any=20 other
> > damage.
> > Everything inside looked fine. = ; The=20 nose lift is fine.  The
> landing
> > gear
> >= ;=20 strut will have to be replaced, as well as the lower casting on
>=20 the
> > nose
> > wheel assembly.  I may forget allot= of=20 things in the future, but
> > I'll bet
> > that landing = gear=20 won't be one of them.
> >
> > I pulled the engine cowling= , and=20 the belt on the smog pump that I
> > use for
> > vacuum = was=20 fine, so I still don't know the cause of the vacuum
> > problem.&= nbsp;=20 I
> > need to pull the canard, and I/P cover anyway to = troubleshoot a=20
> NAV
> > system
> > problem, so I'll get to the = bottom=20 of it when I do that.  I'll
> have
> > plenty
> = >=20 of time while I'm waiting on parts.
> > The only damage to the = nose at=20 all was a couple of cracks in the
> > micro
> > around = the=20 hockey puck.  I'll have to sand it down to get the
> rest
&= gt;=20 > of the
> > puck off anyways, so that isn't a big deal.
>= ;=20 >
> > The good news is that my noise in the right main wheel is= =20 fixed. 
> I
> > took it
> > apart, really = didn't=20 find anything, but I repacked the bearings,
> and
> > put=20 it
> > all back together and the noise is gone.  I guess that= it=20 must
> have
> > been an
> > alignment issue with = the=20 disk or something.  I was careful to
> snug
> > the=20 bolts
> > with the same torque while mounting the disk to the=20 wheel.  I
> think
> > that may
> > have been = the=20 issue.
> >
> > Also the engine continues to run=20 superbly.  I still am running
> > warmer than I
> > = like,=20 but I have a plan to remedy that.  The rotary engine is so
> >= ;=20 smooth and
> > quiet that you forget it's running almost.
>= =20 >
> > Steve Brooks
> > Cozy MKIV N75CZ
> > = Turbo=20 rotary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >=20 >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> &= gt;=20 >>  Archive:   http://= lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20 >
> >
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>=20 >>  Archive:   http://= lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20
>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>=20 >>  Archive:   http://= lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20
>
 
----__JNP_000_01ef.5a5c.2415--