Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b4) with ESMTP id 123946 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:58:03 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i54FvULr016183 for ; Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:57:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801c44a4c$a5a85960$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Radiator Ducts Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:57:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C44A2B.1E4A6E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C44A2B.1E4A6E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hard to say, Finn. The radiator end fit the 10x9.5 core area and the = duct opening end is approx 6x4, so not knowing how much room between = your cores and your opening I would say the chance they would fit is = slim. Besides, the glass work is crappy and not something I would be = proud to show (in fact try ashamed {:>). Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Finn Lassen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost limits in the EC2 Any chance these new scrapped ducts would fit my RV-3?=20 Finn Ed Anderson wrote: Hey! Hey! All this time??. Let me tell you, Rusty being "retired" = is hard work!{:>) I just expended over a week on the new radiator inlet = ducts, only to decide the curve profile was not what I wanted and the = glass work was crappy. They would have worked, but what I have now = works fine, I just want to try to get closer to a optimum set up - so = back to the drawing boards and K&W. After rereading K&W material on the streamline duct and finally = having it click as to what the one figure was portraying, my = understanding has considerably improved. I can now make an = approximation as to how much pressure recovery I lose in truncating the = duct length to fix under the cowl. So new duct molds in the process as = we speak. I am also continuing in my quest to learn how to program a microchip = which would be the thing needed (desirable) to implement such a "smart" = waste gate controller. Hey, I have gotten it to the point that it = actually blinks at me and displays Numbers representing the duty cycle = of the pulse train the chip can generate. So it would seem that with = using the chip's A/D converter tied into a barometric sensor in the = intake to drive the duty cycle of the pulse you could control a waste = gate servo. Hummm. But, still fairly slow going - next step is to have it display on an = LCD screen. I know seems trivial to you computer types, but getting = this done in assembly language is a major step for me. Well, would like to chat more, but time is short so have to run {:>) Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 9:02 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost limits in the EC2 Yes, I tend to agree. Tracy - are you listening? Does this make = sense to you? Anyone else care to comment? I'd really like to get = something built into the EC2....soon. Regards, John Like most everyone else, I don't like the fuel cut idea. I still = think something along the lines of an ignition retard would be best, but = I have to admit to never trying that. What we'd have to figure out is = how much to retard it, and will this really work? =20 Naturally, I have to mention that this should be considered a = safety feature, and not something to be relied on daily. I think the = first priority should be to get an effective means of control of the = turbo boost, which I commend several of you for trying to do. =20 Once we get an effective wastegate, a normal pressure type = controller will work fine, except that it will be a differential device, = rather than being referenced to absolute pressure. Here is where Tracy = could provide electronic wastegate control, just as it's done in the FD. = In the car, to raise the pressure above the normal wastegate = controller, they use a solenoid to create a "leak" in the pressurized = line to the wastegate controller. Since a solenoid is a "digital" = device (either open or closed), the CPU sends a square wave pulse to = control it. The duty cycle of the pulse determines the average open = time of the solenoid. Since Tracy is already sensing the MAP, he could = use that to provide a pulsed signal for a solenoid, that varies from = 0-100% duty cycle. This could also be done as a standalone unit I would = think. Maybe since Ed has all this time on his hands... :-) Cheers, Rusty (too deep for this early in the morning) ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C44A2B.1E4A6E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hard to say, Finn.  The radiator = end fit the=20 10x9.5 core area and the duct opening end is approx 6x4, so not knowing = how much=20 room between your cores and your opening I would say the chance they = would fit=20 is slim.  Besides, the glass work is crappy and not something I = would be=20 proud to show (in fact try ashamed {:>).
    Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Finn=20 Lassen
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 = 11:13=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo = boost=20 limits in the EC2

Any chance these new scrapped ducts would fit my RV-3?=20

Finn

Ed Anderson wrote:
Hey! Hey!  All this = time??.  Let me=20 tell you,  Rusty being "retired" is hard work!{:>)  I = just=20 expended over a week on the new radiator inlet ducts, only to decide = the=20 curve profile was not what I wanted and the glass work was = crappy. =20 They would have worked, but what I have now works fine,  I just = want to=20 try to get closer to a optimum set up - so back to the drawing = boards and=20 K&W.
 
After rereading K&W material on = the=20 streamline duct and finally having it click as to what the one = figure was=20 portraying, my understanding has considerably improved.  I can = now make=20 an approximation as to how much pressure recovery I lose in = truncating the=20 duct length to fix under the cowl.  So new duct molds in the = process as=20 we speak.
 
I am also continuing in my quest to = learn how=20 to program a microchip which would be the thing needed (desirable) = to=20 implement such a "smart" waste gate controller.  Hey, I have = gotten it=20 to the point that it actually blinks at me and displays Numbers = representing=20 the duty cycle of the pulse train the chip can generate.  So it = would=20 seem that with using the chip's A/D converter tied into a = barometric=20 sensor in the intake to drive the duty cycle of the pulse you could = control=20 a waste gate servo.  Hummm.
But, still fairly slow going - next = step is to=20 have it display on an LCD screen.  I know seems trivial to you = computer=20 types, but getting this done in assembly language is a major step = for=20 me.
 
Well, would like to chat more, but = time is=20 short so have to run {:>)
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, = NC
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Friday, June 04, 2004 9:02 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Turbo boost limits in the EC2

Yes, I tend to agree. Tracy - are you listening? = Does this=20 make sense to you? Anyone else care to comment? I'd really like to = get=20 something built into the EC2....soon. Regards, John

 
Like most everyone=20 else, I don't like the fuel cut idea.  I still think = something along=20 the lines of an ignition retard would be best, but I have to admit = to=20 never trying that.  What we'd have to figure out is how much = to=20 retard it, and will this really work? 
 
Naturally, I have=20 to mention that this should be considered a safety feature, and = not=20 something to be relied on daily.  I think the first priority = should=20 be to get an effective means of control of the turbo boost, which = I=20 commend several of you for trying to do.  =
 
Once we get an effective = wastegate, a=20 normal pressure type controller will work fine, except that = it will=20 be a differential device, rather than being referenced to absolute = pressure.  Here is where Tracy could provide electronic = wastegate=20 control, just as it's done in the FD.   In the car, to = raise the=20 pressure above the normal wastegate controller, they use a = solenoid to=20 create a "leak" in the pressurized line to the wastegate = controller. =20 Since a solenoid is a "digital" device (either open or closed), = the CPU=20 sends a square wave pulse to control it.  The duty cycle of = the pulse=20 determines the average open time of the solenoid.  Since = Tracy=20 is already sensing the MAP, he could use that to provide a pulsed = signal=20 for a solenoid, that varies from 0-100% duty cycle.  This = could also=20 be done as a standalone unit I would think.  Maybe since Ed = has all=20 this time on his hands... :-)
 
Cheers,
Rusty (too deep for this = early in the=20 morning)
=




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