Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b3) with ESMTP id 84719 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:04:07 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4MK43Ns016967 for ; Sat, 22 May 2004 16:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01c44037$f1590ae0$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New cooling Ducts Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 16:04:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C44016.6A1A4060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C44016.6A1A4060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good point, Finn I would just as soon not deal with non-linear output. I'll check = them out. By the way, what do you use to collect your data? Laptop with = a program? an A/D converter? both? Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Finn Lassen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 3:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New cooling Ducts I like the LM34 or LM35 sensors (look up on google or Digikey), you = get an liniar output mV/F or mV/C. Thermistors are non-linear. Finn Ed Anderson wrote: Yes, Bill, I recall our conversation. I like the thermistor idea as = the heavy wire required for thermocouples that I attempted was a real = pain routing and connecting. Now my question to you is what kind of = simple data collector could I use to collect the output of the = thermistor? I presume I need some sort of A/D converter. I do have a = lap top if I just had the program {:>). Any suggestion for thermistors, = I know I could probably figure it out, but if you have any suggestions = based on experience, I would like to hear it. Since I don't intend to change the duct attachment scheme to = radiators, I can always place any combination of old and new ducts on = the aircraft (hopefully). =20 Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: William=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:44 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New cooling Ducts Ed, Since you are building two new ducts, I would like to propose that = you also install the thermistors so you can do the following set of = tests (briefly mentioned at SNF). Basically at a steady power setting = in flight, and potentially at different air speeds, measure the = following temperatures: Tin left, Tout left , Tout right 1. With your *current setup*, with one reshaped duct and one = original duct. 2. With your current left duct and one of the new ducts, and 3. with both new ducts. Since you are plumbed in series, and have identical rads, this = will give us information on the performance of the ducts. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] New cooling Ducts Well enough of that, since the new C drive will apparently = enable the engine to turn 1000 rpm higher, I decided that was good = enough reason to finish my experiment with the cooling duct that turned = out well. Rather than filling in the other duct with expandable foam, = I've decided to build two new ducts with the proper curve built into the = walls. So will be using the Streamline coordinate system (modified). = Since there is not enough space for the full distance, I will truncate = the streamline coordinates as I did on the test duct. Consultation with = the gentleman who wrote the excellent article on liquid cooling in the = January 2004 Sport Aviation and my own test indicated that as long as = the duct was truncated from the inlet end, the adverse effects on = airflow should be minimal. So, will get started on that probably next week early. Got the = coordinates laid out in my old Cadd package only to find out that its = printer drivers will not drive the new HP printer I recently got. So I = guess I'll try converting the CADD to a DWG file and go to one of the = CADD packages I acquired over the year but never really used to see if = they have the correct driver. One thing or the other. Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C44016.6A1A4060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good point, Finn
 
   I would just as soon not = deal with=20 non-linear output.  I'll check them out.  By the way, what do = you use=20 to collect your data? Laptop with a program? an A/D converter?=20 both?
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Finn=20 Lassen
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 = 3:42=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New = cooling=20 Ducts

I like the LM34 or LM35 sensors (look up on google or = Digikey),=20 you get an liniar output mV/F or mV/C.

Thermistors are non-linear.

Finn

Ed = Anderson=20 wrote:
Yes, Bill, I recall our = conversation.  I=20 like the thermistor idea as the heavy wire required for = thermocouples that I=20 attempted was a real pain routing and connecting.  Now my = question to=20 you is what kind of simple data collector could I use to collect the = output=20 of the thermistor?  I presume I need some sort of A/D = converter. =20 I do have a lap top if I just had the program {:>).  Any = suggestion=20 for thermistors, I know I could probably figure it out, but if you = have any=20 suggestions based on experience, I would like to hear = it.
 
Since I don't intend to change the = duct=20 attachment scheme to radiators, I can always place any combination = of old=20 and new ducts on the aircraft (hopefully). 
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, = NC
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 William To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:44 AM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: New cooling Ducts

Ed,
Since you are building two new = ducts, I would=20 like to propose that you also install the thermistors so you can = do the=20 following set of tests (briefly mentioned at SNF).  Basically = at a=20 steady power setting in flight, and potentially at different = air=20 speeds, measure the following temperatures:
Tin left, Tout left , Tout = right
 
1. With your *current setup*, = with one=20 reshaped duct and one original duct.
2. With your current left duct = and one of the=20 new ducts, and
3. with both new = ducts.
 
Since you are plumbed in series, = and have=20 identical rads, this will give us information on the performance = of the=20 ducts.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
-----=20 Original Message ----- From:=20 Ed Anderson To:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 Sent:=20 Friday, May 21, 2004 6:58 PM Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] New cooling Ducts

Well enough of that, since the = new C drive=20 will apparently enable the engine to turn 1000 rpm higher, I = decided=20 that was good enough reason to finish my experiment with the = cooling=20 duct that turned out well.  Rather than filling in the = other duct=20 with expandable foam, I've decided to build two new ducts with = the=20 proper curve built into the walls.  So will be using the = Streamline=20 coordinate system (modified).  Since there is not enough = space for=20 the full distance, I will truncate the streamline = coordinates as I=20 did on the test duct.  Consultation with the gentleman who = wrote=20 the excellent article on liquid cooling in the January 2004 = Sport=20 Aviation and my own test  indicated   that = as long=20 as the duct was truncated from the inlet end, the adverse = effects on=20 airflow should be minimal.
 
So, will get started on that = probably next=20 week early.  Got the coordinates laid out in my old Cadd = package=20 only to find out that its printer drivers will not drive the new = HP=20 printer I recently got.  So I guess I'll try converting the = CADD to=20 a DWG file and go to one of the CADD packages I acquired over = the year=20 but never really used to see if they have the correct driver. = One thing=20 or the other.
 
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW = Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews,=20 NC
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