Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.169.67] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b1) with ESMTP id 3139738 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 00:07:42 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:07:42 -0800 Received: from 67.25.179.46 by bay3-dav37.adinternal.hotmail.com with DAV; Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:07:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [67.25.179.46] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Requesting more thoughts on cooling Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 00:07:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0011.2700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0003_01C4177D.57F40FE0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2004 05:07:42.0291 (UTC) FILETIME=[42EB4A30:01C417A7] ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C4177D.57F40FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From what I've seen so far, cooling results on the ground have almost no = relationship to cooling in-flight. I would not make any decision on the = thermostat based on what you have observed so far. My engine would be at redline in 15 minutes of medium throttle ground run= ning. On a hot day (95 - 105 deg ), my engine will stabilize at about 22= 4 deg F (water & oil) during a long taxi (like after landing at Oshkosh)= This has always been the case. In the early days (10 years ago), if I= had tried to take off at this temperature, the engine would have boiled = over. I have improved in-flight cooling to the point where it will now c= ool off from this temperature during climb-out (but I still don't like to= take off at those temperatures). At home it only takes about 5 seconds= to taxi for takeoff so I have a 4 min wait for engine temps to reach min= imum. I use 130 deg oil temp for min. takeoff temp. Tracy ----- Original Message ----- From: John Slade Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Requesting more thoughts on cooling Guys, I'm signed off and ready to fly, but I'm a little concerned about cooling= issues. I don't want to melt anything in the first go around the pattern= I'm finding that the engine gets REALLY hot after about 10 - 15 minutes g= round running, and I'm wondering if that's to be expected, or if I have a= cooling problem. Maybe I should just taxi gently to the runway and laun= ch to get airflow as soon as possible. For example, today I ran it up and down the taxiway for a few minutes at = fairly low speeds and around 2500 - 3000rpm. Then I did some static runup= s (maybe 3800 - 4000 rpm - all the brakes will hold) and some EC2 tuning.= Then I did some mode 1 programing at various rpm. During this run I watc= hed the water temp gradually go up until it was over 200 and I shut her d= own. The oil was still down around 140 - 160. I took the cowl off and fou= nd that everything in the engine compartment was HOT. Radiator, oil coole= rs, hoses, intake, the cowl itself. Apart from giving my cowl a REAL GOOD= post cure I dont think I've done any damage, but this doesnt give me a l= ot of confidence about whether I'll make it around the pattern. The thermostat is now in place, and I get the feeling that I'd be much be= tter without it. Once the engine gets a little hot the water temps seem t= o "run away" if I'm producing any kind of power. So... to remove the ther= mostat [3rd gen rew engine] I have to remove the water pump and have the = by-pass hole welded shut - right? Do you 13B drivers tend to just taxi out at low rpm then launch? Would yo= ur engine overheat if you did a 15 minute medium power runup? I'd appreci= ate any general thoughts, or comments on how much ground running I should= expect to get away with before the temps get too high. Anything else I s= hould check? Regards, John Slade ------=_NextPart_001_0003_01C4177D.57F40FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From what I've seen so far= , cooling results on the ground have almost no relationship to cooli= ng in-flight.  I would not make any decision on the thermostat based= on what you have observed so far.
 
My engine= would be at redline in 15 minutes of medium throttle ground running.&nbs= p; On a hot day (95 - 105 deg ), my engine will stabilize at about&n= bsp;224 deg F (water & oil)  during a long taxi (like aft= er landing at Oshkosh).  This has always been the case.  In the= early days (10 years ago), if I had tried to take off at this temperatur= e, the engine would have boiled over.  I have improved in-fligh= t cooling to the point where it will now cool off from this temperat= ure during climb-out (but I still don't like to take off at those te= mperatures).   At home it only takes about 5 seconds to taxi fo= r takeoff so I have a 4 min wait for engine temps to reach minimum. = I use 130 deg oil temp for min. takeoff temp.
 
Tracy
 
----- Original Message -= ----
From: John Slade
Sen= t: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:34 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Requesting more thoughts on cooling
 
Guys,
I'm signed off and re= ady to fly, but I'm a little concerned about cooling issues. I don't want= to melt anything in the first go around the pattern.
&n= bsp;
I'm finding that the= engine gets REALLY hot after about 10 - 15 minutes ground running, and I= 'm wondering if that's to be expected, or if I have a cooling problem.&nb= sp; Maybe I should just taxi gently to the runway and launch to get airfl= ow as soon as possible.
 
For example, today I ran it up and down the taxiwa= y for a few minutes at fairly low speeds and around 2500 - 3000rpm. Then = I did some static runups (maybe 3800 - 4000 rpm - all the brakes will hol= d) and some EC2 tuning. Then I did some mode 1 programing at various= rpm. During this run I watched the water temp gradually go&nbs= p;up until it was over 200 and I shut her down. The oil was still down ar= ound 140 - 160. I took the cowl off and found that everything in the engi= ne compartment was HOT. Radiator, oil coolers, hoses, intake, the cowl it= self. Apart from giving my cowl a REAL GOOD post cure I dont think I've d= one any damage, but this doesnt give me a lot of confidence about whether= I'll make it around the pattern.
 
The thermostat is now in place, and I get = the feeling that I'd be much better without it. Once the engine gets a li= ttle hot the water temps seem to "run away" if I'm producing any kind of = power. So... to remove the thermostat [3rd gen rew engine] I have to remo= ve the water pump and have the by-pass hole welded shut - right?
 
Do you 13B= drivers tend to just taxi out at low rpm then launch? Would your engine = overheat if you did a 15 minute medium power runup? I'd appreciate any general thoughts, or comments on how m= uch ground running I should expect to get away with before the temps get = too high. Anything else I should check?
 
Regards,
J= ohn Slade
 
 
 
 
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