Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.169.101] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b1) with ESMTP id 3134102 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:31:28 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:31:27 -0800 Received: from 64.159.105.217 by BAY3-DAV71.phx.gbl with DAV; Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:31:27 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [64.159.105.217] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: No rev-2 flying yet (Tracy, see comments inred) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:31:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0011.2700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01C41592.21470ED0" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2004 18:31:27.0341 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C0CB1D0:01C415BC] ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C41592.21470ED0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The cheapo 11027 is the only thing I've used and it has always functioned= flawlessly on auto fuel. I ran a lot of 100LL through it and it lasted = at least 65 hours even with the LL. =20 I don't know what to make of the problems you are having Rusty. The MAP= table will be in the low rpm table at anything less than 2400. Maybe it= has to do with the speed at which you slam the throttle back to idle. I= usually move it smoothly. I'll try some rapid movements next time I cra= nk up & see if I can reproduce that effect. Tracy (Still working on my RV nose job, but looking Good!) Ill post a p= icture of a "cuff" for Tommy soon as I get a chance. I've had good experience with the Bosch 11027 O2 sensor. I think it's $20= , got it for $10 with mail in rebate. Finn Russell Duffy wrote: Greetings, The following is some of my log entry for today. Looks like the first re= v-2 flight will happen next weekend (hopefully). Rusty I tried tuning the engine again. The O2 reading is still out to lunch, = but I got it running fairly well, except for a couple issues. From idle= , to full throttle, there is a hesitation. This can be corrected by turn= ing the mixture a bit richer, but that screws up the idle. Attempts to w= ork out this mixture imbalance failed, partly due to the fact that I can=E2= =80=99t read the O2. =20 =20 The other issue is when you chop the throttle from a high setting, to idl= e. This is very strange. Say the idle is set at 1900 rpm, and I=E2=80=99= m running at high throttle. When I chop the throttle, the rpm goes low, = to around 1600 and stays there. During this time, the MP is 16.0, and th= e engine is very rough. It will stay here forever, but if you turn the m= ixture knob about 90 degrees CCW to lean it out, it smoothes out, the rpm= increases to 1900, and the MP drops to 13.0. If you are at a higher thr= ottle setting, and decrease throttle more slowly, it will come down to 19= 00 rpm, 13 MP, and smooth. It also seems like the engine is jumping back= and forth between the dual map ranges, and I believe this false 16" MP r= eading at the rough, low idle is from the dual map. I think I even prove= d that to myself by watching the EM-2 screen that shows EC-2 readings. = I=E2=80=99ve got some work to do on this one, but it's just a tuning issu= e. =20 =20 Another note for Tracy- turning off the primary injectors makes the EM-2 = rpm double. It makes for an impressive HP figure though :-) Speaking of= HP, mine reads 225 HP at 4900 rpm. Yeah, I wish :-) The down side to = having an engine monitor with so many functions, is that it will take som= e serious time to get the thing dialed in. =20 =20 Good news, my old problem of mismatched injectors (primary vs secondary) = is gone. I can now switch off the primaries, and not even be able to tel= l that it switched to the secondaries. Gotta love that. =20 =20 After more than an hour of torturing the Lycoming guys, I decided to try = hooking up my old air fuel gauge to see if it would read better than the = EM-2. I added wires to it, hooked up the power, extended a wire to reach= the O2 sender, and promptly found that the O2 sender was falling apart. = It was screwed into the pipe just fine, but the outer part, the inner co= ver, and the element itself were all flopping around independently of eac= h other, and the main housing. Just a wild guess, but I=E2=80=99m thinki= ng this is bad :-) I stopped by the auto parts place on the way home, w= here a busy, and grumpy (because I couldn=E2=80=99t give him a year, make= , and model vehicle) guy produced a single wire Bosch sensor. The one I = got was #11051, and seems to be the heavier duty import sensor. The pric= e was $30. There is also a $20 sensor #12013 that is just like the one t= hat fell apart. I splurged, and paid the extra $10. I was all ready to = order a new FJO wideband unit, and I still might. =20 =20 Some numbers from the run (cowl off, but rad inlet ducts in place): Oil temp- 165 (max was 185 at full throttle for about 2 minutes) Water temp- 175 (distilled water only so far, max was 190 at full throttl= e for about 2 minutes) Water pressure- 25 psi (29 psi cap) Oil pressure- 74 psi at 2000 rpm (seems high, need to check cal) Voltage with alt on- 14.2 V (alt off was 12.3) =20 Max static rpm is 4900 when mixture is at best power. EGT=E2=80=99s were= in the 1600 range. =20 =20 I also found that my =E2=80=9Cscat=E2=80=9D tubes for the tb inlet were t= rying to suck themselves shut on the bends. I ordered some =E2=80=9Cscee= t=E2=80=9D tubing to correct this. Eventually, I=E2=80=99ll make some ha= rd pipes for the bends, if I don=E2=80=99t change the arrangement. =20 =20 Finally, I=E2=80=99ll try to spend some time this week verifying calibrat= ions on the EM-2. I have spare senders for most of the functions, and wi= ll have to find a way to simulate pressures. The fuel gauges are in desp= erate need of cal. About one more round of tuning, with a functioning O= 2 meter, and it should be ready to fly. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C41592.21470ED0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
The chea= po 11027 is the only thing I've used and it has always functioned flawles= sly on auto fuel.  I ran a lot of 100LL through it and it laste= d at least 65 hours even with the LL.  
 
I don't know what to make of the problems you are having Rusty.&nb= sp;  The MAP table will be in the low rpm table at anything less tha= n 2400.  Maybe it has to do with the speed at which you slam the thr= ottle back to idle.  I usually move it smoothly.  I'll try some= rapid movements next time I crank up & see if I can reproduce that e= ffect.
 
Tracy  (Still working on my RV n= ose job, but looking Good!)  Ill post a picture of a "cuff" for Tomm= y soon as I get a chance.
 
I've had good experience with the Bosch = 11027 O2 sensor. I think it's $20, got it for $10 with mail in rebate.
Finn

Russell Duffy wrote:

Greetings,

<= P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> 

T= he following is some of my log entry for today.  Looks like the firs= t rev-2 flight will happen next weekend (hopefully).

 

Rusty

 

 

I tried tuning the engine again.   The O2 readin= g is still out to lunch, but I got it running fairly well, except for a c= ouple issues.   From idle, to full throttle, there= is a hesitation.  This can be corrected by turning the= mixture a bit richer, but that screws up the idle.  At= tempts to work out this mixture imbalance failed, partly due to the fact = that I can=E2=80=99t read the O2.

 

= The other issue is when you chop the throttle from = a high setting, to idle.  This is very strange.&n= bsp; Say the idle is set at 1900 rpm, and I=E2=80=99m running at h= igh throttle.  When I chop the throttle, the rpm goes l= ow, to around 1600 and stays= there.  During this time, the MP is 16.0, and the engi= ne is very rough.  It will stay here forever, but if yo= u turn the mixture knob about 90 degrees CCW to lean it out, it smoothes = out, the rpm increases to 1900, and the MP drops to 13.0.  If you are at a higher throttle setting, and decrease throttle more s= lowly, it will come down to 1900 rpm, 13 MP, and smooth.  It also seems like the engine is jumping back and forth between the du= al map ranges, and I believe this false = 16" MP reading at the rough, low idle is from the dual map.  I = think I even proved that to myself by watching the EM-2 screen that shows= EC-2 readings.   I=E2=80=99ve got some wor= k to do on this one, but it's just a tun= ing issue. 

 

Another note for Tracy- turning off the prima= ry injectors makes the EM-2 rpm double.  It makes for a= n impressive HP figure though :-)  Speaking of HP= , mine reads 225 HP at 4900 rpm.   Yeah, I wish :-)  The down side to having an = engine monitor with so many functions, is that it will take some serious = time to get the thing dialed in.   

 <= /FONT>

Good news, my old p= roblem of mismatched injectors (primary vs secondary) is gone. = ; I can now switch off the primaries, and not even be able to tell= that it switched to the secondaries.  Gotta love that.=  

 

After more than an hour of torturing the Lycoming guys, I decided to try= hooking up my old air fuel gauge to see if it would read better than the= EM-2.  I added wires to it, hooked up the power, exten= ded a wire to reach the O2 sender, and promptly found that the O2 sender was falling apart.&nbs= p; It was screwed into the pipe just fine, but the outer part, the= inner cover, and the element itself were all flopping around independent= ly of each other, and the main housing.  Just a wild gu= ess, but I=E2=80=99m thinking this is bad :-)   I = stopped by the auto parts place on the way home, where a busy, and grumpy= (because I couldn=E2=80=99t give him a year, make, and model vehicle) gu= y produced a single wire Bosch sensor.  The one I got w= as #11051, and seems to be the heavier duty import sensor.  The price was $30.  There is also a $20 sensor #12= 013 that is just like the one that fell apart.  I splur= ged, and paid the extra $10.  I was all ready to order = a new FJO wideband unit, and I still might. 

 

Some numbers from the run (co= wl off, but rad inlet ducts in place):

Oil temp- 165 (max was 185 at full thrott= le for about 2 minutes)

Water temp- 175 (distilled water only so far, max was 19= 0 at full throttle for about 2 minutes)

Water pressure- 25 psi (29 psi cap)=

Oil pressur= e- 74 psi at 2000 rpm  (seems high, need to check cal)<= o:p>

Voltage= with alt on- 14.2 V  (alt off was 12.3)

=  

Max static rpm is 4900 when mixtur= e is at best power.  EGT=E2=80=99s were in the 1600 ran= ge. 

 

I also found that my =E2=80=9Cscat=E2=80=9D tubes for the tb inlet we= re trying to suck themselves shut on the bends.  I orde= red some =E2=80=9Csceet=E2=80=9D tubing to correct this.  Eventually, I=E2=80=99ll make some hard pipes for the bends, if I don=E2= =80=99t change the arrangement. 

<= o:p> 

Finally, I=E2=80=99ll try to spend some t= ime this week verifying calibrations on the EM-2.  I ha= ve spare senders for most of= the functions, and will hav= e to find a way to simulate pressures.  The fuel gauges= are in desperate need of cal.   About one more round of tuning, with a functioning O2 meter= , and it should be ready to fly.    <= /FONT>

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