X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=G+5i7Os5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=f0XSbmdCY37jY5x9wZlmuQ==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=J70Eh1EUuV4A:10 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=YT3Yr15HAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=VnRBlhcPenl4Lan12-QA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=gwQdFklFc944pw6z-V8A:9 a=a1VdOn7AT-bCRzgN:21 a=n01S8XkSGdFQBE5HZolH:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=wTiroRwonzHjqvaCcHYi:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 12926749 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Sep 2019 11:00:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.172; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id r5so3198504qtd.0 for ; Thu, 05 Sep 2019 08:00:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+/Vi3IjoM5ar1nGC/UvDqbJjCDRPSHy0gjAKISk+ehU=; b=etj5b+5baI4wT2NPANKUU3mDMsFVpOeYXadJNnOGdEMOy/y/BZQTCr3f7NiB74KEAK Ehfrtl1widkPDEkFKktCiQzxlv1nnvSPYQhGEU3YbXIzsTJcDwZXVavoTB7yo8PFlIfr 0KT0vOo0vA5joANUyJIL2G2YmSvcIe3WqkOtlo5MuDQhT9fn1quha7ifXDVG0S9Uc4Al OYZZZNGZPTv8FAVmUcmb42im0zqSIjbq2idqHmrpZSLi7PZIymmJdf5xNQPcV7ymvnRJ 3mNolfTVu1/FqjVXBaY7BfT74sLUug++4pUDc3INHeHwMxn7AVhX56cxDWA7vn39dEDp WhLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=+/Vi3IjoM5ar1nGC/UvDqbJjCDRPSHy0gjAKISk+ehU=; b=afuuJ74jOE88fHApu0eWaP3WjgJAXJPEXDb7Za+oSfzxJqlATRfjr5e7o1Unh1/Pcx ZU0jULococUbExAe0zzNgKNaReryb9OOybCu19qFPwk8zJxHPKhYse8urILArWAZV/QP T6QlerHZc7cEtsfbDQJM+LF0B5YVNPGIJQsa3fLgtEavl8xJ+9O8ehi2hf9PFmGR0dCr jiR6YsV6oWq+Ly89pAOtabY48loB24EiPBm/VfxGVtU3/oehwAkWwu9hMd4fzT2LWbGn 2xVlZ9HiJRaD1Fzny65sPiad45G7h120Gu3PNFjndpWA0p7nDIPN0fcbya0zk88ANocS 8n7A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV/5nRJ1nRG/vjJnIy80a1kupAyMZSuCBJxF+mYor5HFaDec3fG DTRfpWtZkZkJ9MfuxnnflC4UfApFBO8+ZeH8y4yGgieP X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxytjAKBbbj1+m4oT3asCS13QhjUkWG35scCFJD/Ryn6fCbdGyvFVvRv9vki/wMdQiB0TQQXJZSxIZrSPjA5iU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:80a:: with SMTP id df10mr1942336qvb.93.1567695616311; Thu, 05 Sep 2019 08:00:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 08:00:05 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005385ef0591cf942e" --0000000000005385ef0591cf942e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Neil, I started with the stock turbo knowing it wasnt quite rite for the job, but hey, its came free with my engine. It performed pretty well but only lasted about 100 hrs. Since then I have been with various iterataions of the TO4 in a modified stock turbine housing. Those have performed very well but are not industructable. Prolonged periods at Peak EGT will melt them too. I have over 600 hrs on my curent turbo becuase I keep it either rich or lean of peak and the TOT less than 890C. I recall the exact size of my radiator, 20"x22"x3" rings a bell. It is all detailed in the archives and on my website. (which is in dire need of an update). Dave Leonard www.rotaryroster.net On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 3:21 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Dave, > > Still trying to get around to fitting a turbo, possibly > next lifetime the way I am going. What turbo did you end up fitting, and > what size cooler? Neil. > On 9/5/2019 6:36 AM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: > > I agree with Marc. A proper single turbo will be more efficient, more > reliable, and much easier to install. Sequential turbos are most helpful > to minimize turbo lag in automotive applications. Stock one or two-piece > apex seals are plenty (even preferred) for modest boost levels (up to 150 > hp per rotor or so). > > The rotary will not burn less fuel than an 8 cyl aircraft engine at the > same output. It will burn more, but not an excessive amount more. > > Dave Leonard > > On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:24 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> That does not sound to me like a suitable aircraft configuration. >> A single turbo would suffice, the controller/wastegate would dial in the >> boost needed to maintain SL pressure in the manifold at any condition, >> there isn't a reason to 'overboost' the engine. Too complicated and >> unnecessary-especially all the hot turbo piping could get very messy. >> Is the engine builder using ceramic rotor tip seals? Good idea for >> boosted engines. >> MW >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 2:00 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... >> >> Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question >> also answered another - >> >> The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up >> sequentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm >> above cruise rpm. Once the throttle is opened past that point for >> takeoff/climbout the second turbo kicks in to more power. >> >> That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is >> operating to provide turbo normalisation. Hope this makes sense! >> >> >> >> On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: >> > Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to >> > the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves >> > with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90 >> > gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size >> > instead of fuel tank size. >> > >> > On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: >> >> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: >> >>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine with >> >>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and >> >>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four >> >>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or possible >> >>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it with >> >>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar? >> >>> >> >> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking about a >> >> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that >> >> power level may require your own refinery. >> >> Charlie >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> Archive and UnSub: >> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > --0000000000005385ef0591cf942e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Neil,

I started with the stock turbo knowing it wasnt quite rite for th= e job, but hey, its came free with my engine.=C2=A0 It performed pretty wel= l but only lasted about 100 hrs.=C2=A0 Since then I have been with various = iterataions of the TO4 in a modified stock turbine housing.=C2=A0 Those hav= e performed very well but are not industructable.=C2=A0 Prolonged periods a= t Peak EGT will melt them too.=C2=A0 I have over 600 hrs on my curent turbo= becuase I keep it either rich or lean of peak and the TOT less than 890C.<= /div>

I recall the exact size = of my radiator, 20"x22"x3"=C2=A0 rings a bell.=C2=A0 It is a= ll detailed in the archives and on my website. (which is in dire need of an= update).

Dave Leonard

www.rotaryroster.net

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 3:21= PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com= <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Dave,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Still trying to get around to fitting = a turbo, possibly next lifetime the way I am going.=C2=A0 What turbo did you e= nd up fitting, and what size cooler? =C2=A0 Neil.

On 9/5/2019 6:36 A= M, David Leonard wdleonard@g= mail.com wrote:
=20
I agree with Marc.=C2=A0 A proper single turbo will= be more efficient, more reliable, and much easier to install.=C2=A0 Sequential turbos are most helpful to minimize turbo lag in automotive applications.=C2=A0 Stock one or two-piece apex seals ar= e plenty (even preferred) for modest boost levels (up to 150 hp per rotor or so).

The rotary will not burn less fuel than an 8 cyl aircraft engine at the same output.=C2=A0 It will burn more, but not an excessive amount more.

Dave Leonard

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:24 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:
That does not sound to me like a suitable aircraft configuration.
A single turbo would suffice, the controller/wastegate would dial in the boost needed to maintain SL pressure in the manifold at any condition, there isn't a reason to 'overb= oost' the engine. Too complicated and unnecessary-especially all the hot turbo piping could get very messy.
Is the engine builder using ceramic rotor tip seals? Good idea for boosted engines.
MW

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 2:00 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question...

Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question also answered another -

The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up sequentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm above cruise rpm.=C2=A0 Once the throttle i= s opened past that point for takeoff/climbout the second turbo kicks in to more power.

That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is operating to provide turbo normalisation.=C2=A0 Ho= pe this makes sense!



On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@al= phalink.com.au wrote:
> Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to
> the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves
> with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90
> gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size
> instead of fuel tank size.
>
> On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland= 7@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbed= ford@alphalink.com.au wrote:
>>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine with
>>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and
>>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four
>>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or possible
>>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it with
>>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar?
>>>
>> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking about a
>> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that
>> power level may require your own refinery.
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivi= rus
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrota= ry.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> h= ttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.c= om/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>


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