X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=G+5i7Os5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=FQwhE00XYU+i68H2eFB8gQ==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=J70Eh1EUuV4A:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=YT3Yr15HAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=YaP_pBL8L1zCgEXcAOgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=fwu45S7MF2OLpnr01K4A:9 a=vMaVmGvFv7Wb7yKg:21 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=wTiroRwonzHjqvaCcHYi:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com ([209.85.222.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 12924129 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 16:36:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.222.180; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id d26so13441320qkk.2 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 13:36:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5TSfVfTRuOoHa4nQKJak7KO12RZHTRW9Pz8AIkeEn3U=; b=jf9t4YEqBrZvFnlWebF+WMjkwK1mEO6N7oujJQ0x3H4YcMtGz9b1iP3tUX/43LMqSy WNyJre1nMUwl+n/6uR8AiOcb8+mIK7FFapZ8W7gmWoBakNb15k1upyBPeOl0/9bRPLIr rqsOwiHXZdML9hdUOtONNb61rHZ+Couw+yz978UIQWlXl+qHCTSD+p3kqpHCjbML3Kef T1V3YleEgJNzGSHMKPt/MmHGfYW6bqRSRcoiAwrg+1u5hnQC2J1/+5OPO/FosNOU5GHN 32dQlKBdHo4teG/bkQXc12IfpG1qbFdbyCzXe41lWeMenoR+/Cj7/Jy7GeQREXFtbSDH vi+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=5TSfVfTRuOoHa4nQKJak7KO12RZHTRW9Pz8AIkeEn3U=; b=sgrqS+W667IktkEcthTUx9w+lWBzG7FzUvs9FFHVuyqGJhx3xT3X2ODCd0wIcGg5ow iQ/qFaS5/kzZQ3r1voY42239LXxrxy2FlX77gH4qJnJ8jR6wDFsWTGxZrszhfpSbEaf9 q3JFRVjvbLr3jv36SYifiKdWLz+dJ0FI5nMlqbjVezIpwgma33OeIAnrlJowSwIEh/TX fqibCKO+saEiVjUxzi8aWYKRQGKsnWCJg7hsGzKoyuC1IFGmbZcYZr8RyyEady0EZPFk JqH5mmZxO3AN4slAH332ZZLqLNXINDKrZsQKpF2djg2hKm6NvURNggDDVpGud3mKV3Pn Cm9A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXeTJzk2cQJo9krvA3yTC/HQMqzWmxjfgcevJ7y6dW9iIi5w82R D+jMmKU8GFZna5ph5XFzw4pzwcLQxdaWOr0pnH+d1w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwkzOqnMDDprUng08Nq6UnARkrSKG6zT6y1V0FRdl5ycEgm1OYv+e3GyuKdH53LLuIXR1c5G69VUej+z9f9uoo= X-Received: by 2002:a37:7e84:: with SMTP id z126mr2400740qkc.448.1567629394478; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 13:36:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 13:36:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000328b640591c029cb" --000000000000328b640591c029cb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I agree with Marc. A proper single turbo will be more efficient, more reliable, and much easier to install. Sequential turbos are most helpful to minimize turbo lag in automotive applications. Stock one or two-piece apex seals are plenty (even preferred) for modest boost levels (up to 150 hp per rotor or so). The rotary will not burn less fuel than an 8 cyl aircraft engine at the same output. It will burn more, but not an excessive amount more. Dave Leonard On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:24 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > That does not sound to me like a suitable aircraft configuration. > A single turbo would suffice, the controller/wastegate would dial in the > boost needed to maintain SL pressure in the manifold at any condition, > there isn't a reason to 'overboost' the engine. Too complicated and > unnecessary-especially all the hot turbo piping could get very messy. > Is the engine builder using ceramic rotor tip seals? Good idea for boosted > engines. > MW > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 2:00 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... > > Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question also > answered another - > > The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up > sequentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm > above cruise rpm. Once the throttle is opened past that point for > takeoff/climbout the second turbo kicks in to more power. > > That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is > operating to provide turbo normalisation. Hope this makes sense! > > > > On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: > > Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to > > the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves > > with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90 > > gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size > > instead of fuel tank size. > > > > On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: > >> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: > >>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine with > >>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and > >>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four > >>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or possible > >>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it with > >>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar? > >>> > >> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking about a > >> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that > >> power level may require your own refinery. > >> Charlie > >> > >> > >> --- > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive and UnSub: > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --000000000000328b640591c029cb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with Marc.=C2=A0 A proper single turbo will be mo= re efficient, more reliable, and much easier to install.=C2=A0 Sequential t= urbos are most helpful to minimize turbo lag in automotive applications.=C2= =A0 Stock one or two-piece apex seals are plenty (even preferred) for modes= t boost levels (up to 150 hp per rotor or so).

<= div dir=3D"auto">The rotary will not burn less fuel than an 8 cyl aircraft = engine at the same output.=C2=A0 It will burn more, but not an excessive am= ount more.

Dave Leonard<= /div>

On Wed, Sep 4, 2019, 1:24 PM Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
That does not sound to me like a suitable aircraft confi= guration.
A single turbo would suffice, the controller/wastegate would dial in the bo= ost needed to maintain SL pressure in the manifold at any condition, there = isn't a reason to 'overboost' the engine. Too complicated and u= nnecessary-especially all the hot turbo piping could get very messy.
Is the engine builder using ceramic rotor tip seals? Good idea for boosted = engines.
MW

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 2:00 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question...

Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question also = answered another -

The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up seq= uentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm above c= ruise rpm.=C2=A0 Once the throttle is opened past that point for takeoff/cl= imbout the second turbo kicks in to more power.

That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is op= erating to provide turbo normalisation.=C2=A0 Hope this makes sense!



On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wr= ote:
> Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to =
> the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves > with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90 <= br> > gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size
> instead of fuel tank size.
>
> On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote= :
>> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au= wrote:
>>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine wit= h
>>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and >>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four=
>>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or poss= ible
>>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it= with
>>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar?
>>>
>> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking abou= t a
>> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that=
>> power level may require your own refinery.
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softwar= e.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> http://mail.lancaironl= ine.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.= net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>


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