X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=G+5i7Os5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=K6+9cgiILuTeInaHylnYpw==:117 a=K6+9cgiILuTeInaHylnYpw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=gR_NtZ3ARTYA:10 a=J70Eh1EUuV4A:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=WrMfpB0aAAAA:8 a=YT3Yr15HAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=8-nd86bE0QNCEf48PbkA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=k_bLtIWm3ZsA:10 a=CJiHQGRCtnMA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=meh8b3rtJv11cZdA-Y4A:9 a=ukk0a40uGR5gF8R4:21 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=0UsE98D-M7l7h1Xh8hAq:22 a=wTiroRwonzHjqvaCcHYi:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Thomas Mann tmann@n200lz.com" Received: from mail.infosaic.com ([216.226.148.38] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 12922869 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 04 Sep 2019 10:49:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.226.148.38; envelope-from=tmann@n200lz.com Received: by mail.infosaic.com via HTTP; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 10:49:51 -0400 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: re: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 10:49:51 -0400 Reply-To: tmann@n200lz.com Message-ID: <1e86666361de46e7b52402e8d79386f1@n200lz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=87fe864af6854cffa793d4e853f415ec X-Originating-IP: [72.214.232.194] In-Reply-To: References: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --87fe864af6854cffa793d4e853f415ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kent, Keep in mind that the "automotive" turbos are not going to cut it in a aviation application. More info written by John Slade here: http://forum.canardaviation.com/showthread.php?t=583 John actually had a stock turbo fail on him which resulted in the impeller blades being ingested into the engine. He was able to fly it home with one damaged rotor(13B.) He wrote a lot about his Turbo experience here: http://canardaviation.com/cozy/chap29b.htm When I was deciding on a engine I considered two options: 13B with a Turbo 20B without a Turbo The end result was I decided on the 20B. My logic was the rotary is a pretty simple engine right up to the point where you add the turbo. For the weight difference, I decided that having an additional rotor was a significant backup plan. T Mann ---------------------------------------- From: "Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au" Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2019 2:01 AM To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question... Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question also answered another - The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up sequentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm above cruise rpm. Once the throttle is opened past that point for takeoff/climbout the second turbo kicks in to more power. That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is operating to provide turbo normalisation. Hope this makes sense! On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: > Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to > the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves > with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90 > gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size > instead of fuel tank size. > > On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: >> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote: >>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine with >>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and >>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four >>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or possible >>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it with >>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar? >>> >> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking about a >> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that >> power level may require your own refinery. >> Charlie >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --87fe864af6854cffa793d4e853f415ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =
Kent,
Keep in mind that the "automotive" turbos are not going to c= ut it in a aviation application.
 
More info written by John Slade here: http://forum.canardaviation.com/sho= wthread.php?t=3D583
John actually had a stock turbo fail on him which resulted in the impe= ller blades being ingested into the engine.
He was able to fly it home with one damaged rotor(13B.)
 
He wrote a lot about his Turbo experience here: http://canardaviation.com/cozy/chap29= b.htm
 
When I was deciding on a engine I considered two options:
13B with a Turbo
20B without a Turbo
 
The end result was I decided on the 20B. My logic was the rotary is a = pretty simple engine right up to the point where you add the turbo. For the= weight difference, I decided that having an additional rotor was a signifi= cant backup plan.
 
T Mann
 
 
 
From: "Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au" <flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2019 2:01 AM
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The ultimate question...
 
Was just talking to the engine builder and the answer to one question
also answered another -

The reason that the engine will have two turbos is that they are set up
sequentially - the first one operates as a turbo normaliser to 500 rpm
above cruise rpm.  Once the throttle is opened past that point for
takeoff/climbout the second turbo kicks in to more power.

That also explains the fuel efficiency at cruise - only a small turbo is operating to provide turbo normalisation.  Hope this makes sense!



On 4/09/2019 11:21 am, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote:
> Kind of strange how it worked out, but when we made a small change to<= br /> > the design that gave a tangible benefit we suddenly found ourselves > with room for an extra 40 gallons on top of what we already had - 90 > gallons should be enough for range to be governed by bladder size
> instead of fuel tank size.
>
> On 4/09/2019 6:08 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
>> On 9/3/2019 2:31 AM, Kent Bedford kbedford@alphalink.com.au wrote:=
>>> ...if someone has an about 450hp four rotor + turbo engine wit= h
>>> effective cooling, and resolves the torsional vibration and >>> resonance issues (which will partly be resolved by having four=
>>> rotors anyway), are there any other foreseeable likely or poss= ible
>>> issues that may need to be overcome to successfully operate it= with
>>> a good 500hp-rated PSRU like a Ballistic or similar?
>>>
>> Figuring out where to put the fuel, unless you're talking about a<= br /> >> time-to-climb record attempt or Reno racer. Any usable a/c at that=
>> power level may require your own refinery.
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus softwar= e.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>


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