X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Ifz5plia c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=XWSBf9a/bkSGQevdmJs33w==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=ad1WmcueCrwA:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=djemcrw3AAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=JoQWYm39AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=IHws4fQEDcewJzJsviMA:9 a=KrCC__Mw9IzwpvS4:21 a=60E22V8kNzV74RLG:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=NvUDV5ZQxI5MOOFvKl0A:9 a=jeclDYH9pHpkYclF:21 a=tt8d9YIWm8CFltjQ:21 a=XbC_M4C4qS_W0t5s:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=rUixLVA0M3wEG775Z1vR:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f45.google.com ([209.85.208.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 12893685 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 03:00:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.45; envelope-from=wrjjrs@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f45.google.com with SMTP id t50so1784600edd.2 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:00:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=36lRVZ1RljK7LbDfSBQI6EaL9OIpBTt4HcFeiUZQVwU=; b=HaN4pqQyu/ataPKzNMgeAZrUj7tadUL7VrcNNat44F9OXd6Oaat5kB/NKjx57Zj/vL C7a+Bkl0TVEn7Xoe2dzCgEqs+TKFPQg2Wi6DyEHWvDtSM2TwB/EBvj7lfhK2O/JWWojW 5rp158HYDC4oifz6YqmIRLRr5g07NRCTeYnIaGiuUjfu0fi/B3dJ+sGB/KZYXvZxZZrs KUwaI7s5ryeH8hfs+cDML6ef0au6DKWu3ee+C1lw1xjg0plZhoK5lpc2wLkrNqgsBiir +Z1MwEiYaKwjtONniY5a8yuBmXhfEJqN9JcB+JY9NARgPv19NsosW86XH5h2lh6NEHYj SdyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=36lRVZ1RljK7LbDfSBQI6EaL9OIpBTt4HcFeiUZQVwU=; b=DJXJA6QhJkSRqHHGtENu7ddyI1aBF9/urPvX3yl+LW+9vTjQ7DQM3fBTl+GltHhH1d XHW1U0BmsTL9y68vRo0WpP5jOAmyPHm+rzCJolvHhljXzC6VePN764HttkED+XlG4g3C EAJK7CsLnNUVuiq6iwblmHZ1xd/S6TNCHzG/CbtfUTF5ioQlTN1FoQRJ04jzcnxVkUPs /WnKL2iu9ddxUdRsDZSIZ2VbcPCF4RFQz2vqivAHDrTe3hppZEduyxUG/GcYtaZlupvE bhsdyrzG83LkS9Su7bHWr4wbeNuvTHF33/5tiYrD17vSeEeSwR8y2puzb/8dFUu0KUgk jRqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWzEoDTWKHWgBFzhaMiTfTDW6zNBtxEfsFDVT8hzILARhzyBt+L y4AV92ijmI/kI0SKAyGnkqsBTL8aPIzFtdY+VLtCq+P+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqydi2CWfMrjYITJl3sAuJkDg0gwRVo3knNulSx022D3Eig98HAThvkW2wl/g4eNta+jMCUFuqX2E7tsfMIr8ZM= X-Received: by 2002:a50:84e4:: with SMTP id 91mr2413670edq.105.1566975631098; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:00:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:00:20 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Curved aluminum radiators To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000dd07a6059127f1e7" --000000000000dd07a6059127f1e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd, Everett Hatch and Steve Beckham were the original Powersport. They worked together for 20+years. They weren=E2=80=99t really even trying to ma= ke a =E2=80=9Cauto conversion=E2=80=9D engine package. More a full on alternativ= e. The work they did was expensive but excellent. When Everett crashed Steve was so distressed he couldn=E2=80=99t continue. He sold Powersport to Raytec Machi= ne in Wisconsin. They made the standard mistake and tried to do everything over, add a full package of electronic control and redid the re-drive. Their product wasn=E2=80=99t as viable as the original, but was well engineered. = And too expensive to sell as an alternate engine package. They might have continued but they made some mistakes on government contracts and were almost bankrupted by that. This is heresay but was the explanation for why they closed Powersport. They still owe Beckham a lot and the intellectual property should revert to him. I=E2=80=99m not totally sure of the final re= solution of who owns what. It would probably require a book to explain how much work they actually put in on the superlight engine/gearbox. They were ready to release a product just prior the the crash. We rotorheads lost a lot that day, Bill On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 10:38 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Bill; > I took a bit of time and did a bit of searching and I had more > confirmation that my memory isn't as sharp as it should be.... > Everette's fatal crash was not rotary related, it was the Mistral crash > that I was thinking of and it was not fatal and was apparently caused by = a > muffler failure, not an oil cooler. > So what did happen to Powersport? > > Todd Bartrim > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:47 AM William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Le Roux, That wasn't the final setup that I described. Rather it was an >> earlier less effective one. >> Todd, Everette's crash wasn't caused by a cooler. Not an engine related >> failure. >> Bill >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:17 AM Le Roux Breytenbach >> breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Todd/Jeff This is a link that i has got on the old Powersport "Set Up" >>> >>> http://www.redbackaviation.com/powersports-rebirth-rotary-engine/ >>> >>> There is a picture of the oilcooler and radiator set up >>> This is all i can get >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 2:28 PM Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Todd, just catching up on the blog after a week of vacation ... my >>> main thought is that doubling your Surface AREA will have far more posi= tive >>> affect than the negative effects of halving your CUBIC area ... cubic >>> inches of radiator is misleading - surface area is far more important. >>> > Jeff >>> > >>> > I'm considering making some changes to my cooling system as it is not >>> adequate when flying low & slow, as on recent flights on a few hot days= . >>> I'm still using a set of evap cores as they fit the limited space on ei= ther >>> side of the PSRU in an RV cowl. >>> > Bill Jepson made mention of a curved radiator earlier this summer, >>> which has been simmering on a hot spot way back in my brain ever since. >>> I've spent the last few days looking real hard at the idea. >>> > The size and shape of the curve looks like it would conform quite >>> nicely to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top of the rad would b= e >>> perpendicular to the airflow while the bottom will curve away. This wou= ld >>> require a new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of this, but that w= ould >>> allow for more time and room to slow down the airflow for greater >>> efficiency. It would also almost double the square inches of cooling ar= ea >>> than I currently have, however as it is thinner it would provide half o= f >>> the cubic inches of volume as I currently have. >>> > The small thick rads I currently use were chosen more with high >>> speeds in mind (well, and of course ease of installation), but now I'm >>> thinking that I'd rather have a thinner rad that would perform better o= n >>> the ground and in slow flight. These curved rads seem like they could o= ffer >>> some advantages. >>> > I've just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $148CAD with free >>> shipping (x2)which seems pretty reasonable, so for $300, it might offer= a >>> significant cooling upgrade.... or maybe not. >>> > I wish I could find an old one to cut open to inspect, test weld, >>> check for fit, etc. >>> > >>> > Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I'm on the edge so it >>> wouldn't take much to push me over, or pull me back.... >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> > Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > --000000000000dd07a6059127f1e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Todd, Everett Hatch and Steve Beckham were the origi= nal Powersport. They worked together for 20+years. They weren=E2=80=99t rea= lly even trying to make a =E2=80=9Cauto conversion=E2=80=9D engine package.= More a full on alternative. The work they did was expensive but excellent.= When Everett crashed Steve was so distressed he couldn=E2=80=99t continue.= He sold Powersport to Raytec Machine in Wisconsin. They made the standard = mistake and tried to do everything over, add a full package of electronic c= ontrol and redid the re-drive. Their product wasn=E2=80=99t as viable as th= e original, but was well engineered. And too expensive to sell as an altern= ate engine package. They might have continued but they made some mistakes o= n government contracts and were almost bankrupted by that. This is heresay = =C2=A0but was the explanation for why they closed Powersport. They still ow= e Beckham a lot and the intellectual property should revert to him. I=E2=80= =99m not totally sure of the final resolution of who owns what. It would pr= obably require a book to explain how much work they actually put in on the = superlight engine/gearbox. They were ready to release a product just prior = the the crash. We rotorheads lost a lot that day,
Bill

On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 10:38 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Bill;
=C2=A0 I took a bi= t of time and did a bit of searching and I had more confirmation that my me= mory isn't as sharp as it should be....
Everette's fatal = crash was not rotary related, it was the Mistral crash that I was thinking = of and it was not fatal and was apparently caused by a muffler failure, not= an oil cooler.
So what did happen to Powersport?=C2=A0

Todd Bartrim


On Tue, Aug 27, 2019= at 8:47 AM William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Le Roux, T= hat wasn't the final setup that I described. Rather it was an earlier l= ess effective one.
Todd, Everette's crash wasn't caused by a co= oler. Not an engine related failure.
Bill=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug = 27, 2019 at 1:17 AM Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
Todd/Jeff This is a link that i has got on the old Powersport &q= uot;Set Up"

http://www.redbackaviation.com/powe= rsports-rebirth-rotary-engine/

There is a picture of the oilcooler and radiator set up
This is all i can get

On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 2:28 PM Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com
<flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Todd, just catching up on the blog after a week of vacation ... my mai= n thought is that doubling your Surface AREA will have far more positive af= fect than the negative effects of halving your CUBIC area ... cubic inches = of radiator is misleading - surface area is far more important.
> Jeff
>
> I'm considering making some changes to my cooling system as it is = not adequate when flying low & slow, as on recent flights on a few hot = days. I'm still using a set of evap cores as they fit the limited space= on either side of the PSRU in an RV cowl.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bill Jepson made mention of a curved radiator earlier this= summer, which has been simmering on a hot spot way back in my brain ever s= ince. I've spent the last few days looking real hard at the idea.
> The size and shape of the curve looks like it would conform quite nice= ly to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top of the rad would be perpen= dicular to the airflow while the bottom will curve away. This would require= a new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of this, but that would allow = for more time and room to slow down the airflow for greater efficiency. It = would also almost double the square inches of cooling area than I currently= have, however as it is thinner it would provide half of the cubic inches o= f volume as I currently have.
>=C2=A0 The small thick rads I currently use were chosen more with high = speeds in mind (well, and of course ease of installation), but now I'm = thinking that I'd rather have a thinner rad that would perform better o= n the ground and in slow flight. These curved rads seem like they could off= er some advantages.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I've just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $148CAD w= ith free shipping (x2)which seems pretty reasonable, so for $300, it might = offer a significant cooling upgrade.... or maybe not.
> I wish I could find an old one to cut open to inspect, test weld, chec= k for fit, etc.
>
> Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I'm on the edge so it = wouldn't take much to push me over, or pull me back....
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
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