X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=T4/ysMCQ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=GWsEYdmQbN9pH0Hr6y0L/Q==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=bGvqVRleIGoA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=3ymvxRGDihmsJ5_w7IwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=hQPT6F6tpV_0U_uA:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic304-10.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.33] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12877538 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:04:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.128.33; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1566597868; bh=D2qOCUfbpGCAhCx8yGBdlQlx4AZQf9sPnfVdE5WFm5U=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=HHEP7vkOZjJSu6Ny5QCn13JxOnjOg5NWlToRN7w/YFFfu8poaYMlTt2lBD5s0WqxlDGNe7c+BzhePPyXGOALikbRvuoKZ6UmpeyPUC7lE2jXhVBpdrjM2KzFCDEh+6a7akrGUPUaofYRGH+a0T1N4neZBiXOP51icJ9pXx34Ac5nNm7ANauvZJTEi8lddL9WBhGU6lgO/v86WYOL13yAPVxtEYIb8Ox8gNc5y5JhH8CEYaKLt31kDgZbAxiNTMX/n7bbAhb3mL4qoaIN4//JcN0Djk74LouhlTJiMSKK9IkEKimmwGouwn2iTS4wk82eL0eHmNMzmXBhy/HQviKmug== X-YMail-OSG: uUyQ3b0VM1nM.Gos.O9Tx7E3OP9OxkTTZtf5tlo_j4veEvq2nJKagHKMRiRzYcE _D7XoOPV.iiTM71Q37Z_tRF3ivk54NmhNFxQ_O6ulbo.Sih8bHq5C9_W1Zur.JzLW5cvtzKGBZnI ZF6haUh9QQLQST0HgUPolcUhyv71mnnIGXTa0P1ceSvotpgQ_Vvz.FrQmE5HByFUf6fs3wToXcpw Tx2nFZkJKTPK5lWtkUSIw88u92J7cyTpccxGmkzyW_.ioSLtxcj4ts96S4iNS8QGJxyVV2VljFne SJmv0uloJHB8nTmKXhbbhQ0wGm3aOPgvAbkfXVZggFHykD1zw0pffPyxb0._vxD2wq.NADHxOsLM 1uMEsDBBdatHaxs0edn.5pv0WBIt6PQRso0lnj8Lh8..qnFRj1FEnc7iU8OGVC9SZFU3DMag4E1V c.Gh6cE8hrnJctgwQy2el6SVGO6lvUmych3BbS.BGuD7g3RahHKSW9bD.lm42BqKn51fcCuwaDEa UplrusvLLibzx1YS_efifNWeutMbSm1z3CeWW3NOB0BQoJNrXJOMyjyqCDbKQ_nvK5mH2SRFVjLl o58bABMXE6is3QzUEOU.q5STcfXSwue6PbMdC5c87wFRCA6GuVVnKYqPslcI01YzTbkIGkxuDa_k ieCoRf5CUkcVsiq650B3joGd1.PjqdhGZTLtcTZxOhYb.75vPdOC88nhPY9V2IkakaC3SH93BgdC 70EdIU04yzUOntpiTytXInuBNMtkhwkq.4QLAzFRUMMNpsNsArOmuoZUeDqCT7yFXgX6Bp5LMjRo Uv9gTL0AhnVd5W0mRQ3cgMBDisZTluOssmufnVgGVOA5LyAY5BJp8zdzpw.0HsS6_OcppbzzeIHL SqvEdr5XhPvCfGgGYMPH7waQ8LgTGS2sT_pQbACh4GsMpmZx090FaIBfhuuLnPDrj7SpmobniL3a o7DZjrXIMGEiYRfm3ieRTSljwkBDjDQcxL1l_.ELV8iLzvrv.KkdnuOWk_HLPci96iVwgKoFg7OS IaT0gU.oORnH3fdxChKmCNRJZ9xrbKPePFhi2nGAaybvOCoXiTDQT2OWE8hS0HbLvui5BHLwe6zx 5QizATaC09hB7c0zrJ3.At2N8lMz0WbRjBTi8JyGuye6ocAQRa9vBpvnAgVYcfGC3.u2pK8dCLbl n4DPxEDHKVHnf8Yz5AYau4fCcFh_kCg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Aug 2019 22:04:28 +0000 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 22:04:26 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1438671910.1008138.1566597866904@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Broken Apex seal leads to dissassembly. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1008137_179818668.1566597866903" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14219 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 14433 ------=_Part_1008137_179818668.1566597866903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A broken apex seal usually takes out the housing, but if you have two faces= making compression then maybe not. Any auto machine shop can grind your ir= ons flat. Check for warping first. Discard warped irons. Nitriding was not used in early engines. It would take 20 years of flying t= o tell the difference between Nitrided and not Nitrided. You can lap them y= ourself after grinding. Apply valve grinding compound to one iron and rub a= nother iron on it. Keep the oil on it. Plan on a week end of hand work. The= re should be no shinny spots when you finish. I did this on all race engine= s I built. Even new irons. Makes a great surface for quick beak-in and and = good for two years of racing at 9,600 RPM with better compression as engine= time builds up. the high pressure car wash is required to get every partic= le of compound out. Since the engine will be a bit shorter, I put a chamfer= on the front of the rear main bearing so it cannot touch the radius on the= crank. Assemble as normal. Use solid corner seals. Set side seal end gap a= t just=C2=A0 zero. One corner seal pushes one side seal around the engine.I= t will be wearing in the side seals=C2=A0 quickly during a 2 hour fast idle= break-in. If the corner seal and both adjacent side seals pop up after bei= ng compressed that is all of the clearance required. This design has dozens= of places to loose compression. A warn engine with no compression will sta= rt if the engine is spun up fast enough. As in a push start for a car. Or t= wo batteries in series for the starter on the dyno. =20 Our first race car was an RX-2 with a junk engine. It was a gift to us beca= use of no start. I poured in 1/4 cup of engine oil and 1/2 a cup of hot cof= fee and get an instant start. A big cloud of smoke as well.=C2=A0 Not a goo= d idea for an airplane, but a demo of how robust the design actually is. If= your rotors are good. Put them in a press and push on the gear to be sure = it is set as deep in the rotor as far as it will go. I grind the index tab = off of the new rotor bearings. I install the bearings with a pusher with a = flange to stop the bearing perfectly. I heat the rotor and freeze the beari= ng. Wipe on the Red Locktite and press it home quickly. That index tab make= s a bump on the inside of the bearing. Hit that with sanding drum on a Drem= mel. (just a bit) I use 100 PSI oil pressure but aircraft need only 75-80 PSI up to 6,000 RPM= . For steel Apex seal use axle grease to hold them in place during assembly= . I like to keep the end piece of the apex seal on the end facing up where = I can see it.=C2=A0 The little buggers will fly across the shop and hide fo= r months. Use some cheap 30 weight fleet oil for 2 hour to 4 hour break-in. Then dump= that oil and look inside the filter for bearing material. Probably a bit o= f sealant material but nothing else. Refill with RedLine 40 weight racing s= ynthetic. Add 1 ounce of RedLine synthetic 2cycle oil for each gallon of fu= el. Twice that for break-in. Never use a Fram filter on anything even a lawn mower. K&K is best. "Check = Real World Solutions" for parts and then Racing Beat. Maybe a dealer who ha= s been sitting on parts for 30 years. Ask for the friends and family discou= nt. Ask for all of the parts you need. Might strike gold. Any questions anytime. Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0 In a message dated 8/23/2019 1:39:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Hi David;Sorry to hear about your engine failure, but as I'm sure you've al= ready deduced, far better to happen at home than at OSH.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm no= t sure you're interested in cross border services, but Adam at RX7 Specialt= ies in Calgary, Alberta is very helpful. Last time I had my engine apart I = called him to enquire about having the irons lapped. He could do it but for= a few bucks more he just sold me some irons that he had that were already = lapped and in better overall condition than mine. Due to not having to pay = to ship my old ones to him, it was actually a little cheaper and much faste= r.=C2=A0 And for you the dollar is worth more up here, so that should offse= t the cost of shipping from up here. But if you choose to send your irons u= p here, do not ever use UPS. Any of the other couriers are fine, but UPS ha= s very expensive brokerage fees, that are nothing short of piracy. Todd(when I get mad about shipping costs and exchange rates, I think about = the boys down under and then I don't feel so bad) On Fri., Aug. 23, 2019, 09:54 David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net, wrote: Am in need of info., where to send my irons ( all three), to be lapped or r= esurfaced, (or purchase some replacements) this is a 13B so the coolant sea= l grooves are in the irons.=C2=A0 I am in Lansing Michigan for distance ref= erence. This was supposed to be a "professional" built eng. w/aviation mods= . the mods are ok, but the wear in the irons in the combustion area looks m= ore like MANY hrs. of use. I only put 80 hrs. on the hobbs. 20 was ground t= esting the rest in the air.=C2=A0 Temps ran 190F coolant, 202F oil, pretty = regular. =C2=A0 Lubrication was 1oz. 2cyc.oil and 1/2 oz. MMOil for every g= al. fuel.=C2=A0 On prep for Osh. trip the next day, wanted some T&G's, runu= p normal very strong could not hold back with brakes, aprox. 90% throttle a= bout foot off runway started missing, set back down and at turn off to taxi= way eng. quit running, had to lean EC2 all the way to left to get started a= gain. Checked EM2 bar graph, all in center so not fuel MAP scramble. Thinki= ng SAG (never experienced before so don't know the symptoms)=C2=A0 changed = plugs, no joy, tested coils, all ok, checked comp. no needle jump on 2 cham= bers, dissassem. found broken chunk from Apex seal rotor #2. Done crying no= w need to fix (short summer). David R. Cook RV6A Rotary=C2=A0 Lansing MI ------=_Part_1008137_179818668.1566597866903 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A broken apex seal usually takes out the housing, but= if you have two faces making compression then maybe not. Any auto machine = shop can grind your irons flat. Check for warping first. Discard warped iro= ns.
Nitriding was not used in early engines. It would tak= e 20 years of flying to tell the difference between Nitrided and not Nitrid= ed. You can lap them yourself after grinding. Apply valve grinding compound= to one iron and rub another iron on it. Keep the oil on it. Plan on a week= end of hand work. There should be no shinny spots when you finish. I did t= his on all race engines I built. Even new irons. Makes a great surface for = quick beak-in and and good for two years of racing at 9,600 RPM with better= compression as engine time builds up. the high pressure car wash is requir= ed to get every particle of compound out. Since the engine will be a bit sh= orter, I put a chamfer on the front of the rear main bearing so it cannot t= ouch the radius on the crank. Assemble as normal. Use solid corner seals. S= et side seal end gap at just  zero. One corner seal pushes one side se= al around the engine.
It will be wearing in the side seals  quickly du= ring a 2 hour fast idle break-in. If the corner seal and both adjacent side= seals pop up after being compressed that is all of the clearance required.= This design has dozens of places to loose compression. A warn engine with = no compression will start if the engine is spun up fast enough. As in a pus= h start for a car. Or two batteries in series for the starter on the dyno.<= br>

Our first race car was an RX-2 with a junk engine. It= was a gift to us because of no start. I poured in 1/4 cup of engine oil an= d 1/2 a cup of hot coffee and get an instant start. A big cloud of smoke as= well.  Not a good idea for an airplane, but a demo of how robust the = design actually is. If your rotors are good. Put them in a press and push o= n the gear to be sure it is set as deep in the rotor as far as it will go. = I grind the index tab off of the new rotor bearings. I install the bearings= with a pusher with a flange to stop the bearing perfectly. I heat the roto= r and freeze the bearing. Wipe on the Red Locktite and press it home quickl= y. That index tab makes a bump on the inside of the bearing. Hit that with = sanding drum on a Dremmel. (just a bit)

I use 100 PSI oil pressure but aircraft need only 75-= 80 PSI up to 6,000 RPM. For steel Apex seal use axle grease to hold them in= place during assembly. I like to keep the end piece of the apex seal on th= e end facing up where I can see it.  The little buggers will fly acros= s the shop and hide for months.

Use some cheap 30 weight fleet oil for 2 hour to 4 ho= ur break-in. Then dump that oil and look inside the filter for bearing mate= rial. Probably a bit of sealant material but nothing else. Refill with RedL= ine 40 weight racing synthetic. Add 1 ounce of RedLine synthetic 2cycle oil= for each gallon of fuel. Twice that for break-in.

Never use a Fram filter on anything even a lawn mower= . K&K is best. "Check Real World Solutions" for parts and then Racing B= eat. Maybe a dealer who has been sitting on parts for 30 years. Ask for the= friends and family discount. Ask for all of the parts you need. Might stri= ke gold.

Any questions anytime.

Lynn E. Hanover 



In a message dated 8= /23/2019 1:39:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writ= es:

Hi David;
Sorry to hear about your engine failure, but as I'm sure you've alread= y deduced, far better to happen at home than at OSH.
   I'm not sure you're interested in cross border services, = but Adam at RX7 Specialties in Calgary, Alberta is very helpful. Last time = I had my engine apart I called him to enquire about having the irons lapped= . He could do it but for a few bucks more he just sold me some irons that h= e had that were already lapped and in better overall condition than mine. D= ue to not having to pay to ship my old ones to him, it was actually a littl= e cheaper and much faster.
  And for you the dollar is worth more up here, so that should of= fset the cost of shipping from up here. But if you choose to send your iron= s up here, do not ever use UPS. Any of the other couriers are fine, but UPS= has very expensive brokerage fees, that are nothing short of piracy.

Todd
(when I get mad about shipping costs and exchange rates, I think about= the boys down under and then I don't feel so bad)


On Fri., Aug. 23, 2019, = 09:54 David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Am in need of info., where to send my irons ( all three), to = be lapped or resurfaced, (or purchase some replacements) this is a 13B so t= he coolant seal grooves are in the irons.  I am in Lansing Michigan fo= r distance reference. This was supposed to be a "professional" built eng. w= /aviation mods. the mods are ok, but the wear in the irons in the combustio= n area looks more like MANY hrs. of use. I only put 80 hrs. on the hobbs. 2= 0 was ground testing the rest in the air.  Temps ran 190F coolant, 202= F oil, pretty regular.   Lubrication was 1oz. 2cyc.oil and 1/2 oz. MMO= il for every gal. fuel.  On prep for Osh. trip the next day, wanted so= me T&G's, runup normal very strong could not hold back with brakes, apr= ox. 90% throttle about foot off runway started missing, set back down and a= t turn off to taxiway eng. quit running, had to lean EC2 all the way to lef= t to get started again. Checked EM2 bar graph, all in center so not fuel MA= P scramble. Thinking SAG (never experienced before so don't know the sympto= ms)  changed plugs, no joy, tested coils, all ok, checked comp. no nee= dle jump on 2 chambers, dissassem. found broken chunk from Apex seal rotor = #2. Done crying now need to fix (short summer). David R. Cook RV6A Rotary&n= bsp; Lansing MI

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