X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=T4/ysMCQ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Qeh2+HkFnPLHg4IF/vQzOA==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=JoQWYm39AAAA:8 a=Hw1yvuz-1FqTCy1FL40A:9 a=61m5uXK1LahrzQqI:21 a=3cWkMkWvw43HQliF:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=PwQ7Jn5YMUaKK_oQVWIA:9 a=N8NT_j4Qms1ItU1D:21 a=v4YTwnPUaj86f0-D:21 a=bR3S-kk8GGOHeXdl:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f50.google.com ([209.85.208.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12874410 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Aug 2019 02:45:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.50; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f50.google.com with SMTP id h8so11808423edv.7 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 23:45:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5XUgU1T1DW2enCvSTxbO3Kgo16LPC8K57XJHMtUw0TE=; b=mytGb8ntDkFa4jsW/FHd9UslSjDIIUAoNFQ3Gup8v2NLF/gaG6dTne+2ym9J3TvFw1 WjoblIZmy0AaBkoAhJTXWLDnl69OLOQp1tTCmHi9D6SvNuNCVMh0R8v+HgJr5QfzwAHi CPRX+JKTFR9cUbza2JTStHGJNVyYtyklD7SC7Oxqr6NnhoHZJMMF+D0qbwjizT3YmV+O y9rwhunn1Ocho7G2Ml7FClONmA08CpXaDYqK2VgR05tt7ceojDOXN5LJN25O4ibjgP6l 0RBG9AYScIFp3yyG8YW825afYUFiPxp8mixxDYVnbN58Xxwlye1xrzzFDHTMi2acH9De BJYw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=5XUgU1T1DW2enCvSTxbO3Kgo16LPC8K57XJHMtUw0TE=; b=rMLLz+WCS8kd7Vqno1o2X70df2lthOEBmnaQvBGVjFCFOr8I1ANA3gIvcJiVupeOnj NqZNsX8ulHI/dnPe1G7apA4jFF0IBSKCZIMf9OlK2Sn5jJ/19eyNI5yiYKkJWuqA+RdP RAuFPjDI65z4zXNHeGHRn4/y5e0pFVXwXa6Rna01XrzG6cfaV+2UL3JF7Xw67LRnALNF GqzHVzcLWt7ayKE+s8XOJOzAfIStSPwdAgh7fTgdTGljcPZjRm/FMBbpETsdo+bFR/UY LZ08bfPCnIKHc8cBgKmMG151pKzvxio1ZJJ5K80xFlUep3aYPVFYok/19jmR5zQGz65M sDWw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXMK7r9nf7ze8NUew4JHCr2FzOp6ROHvH8BMIXXrc9tvSI63mHc D/rLpIwJNNN2XehftwBkq4/amR9CxM9uVRMiMzlhOaM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxTWbxkBYabVWSI8x45vqPp2XnBacctcUCRqOTp8EiiceFiQhhWV0hJiGd/Qt/Qg68BlY8Jzr118C6DoxFGHjQ= X-Received: by 2002:a50:f318:: with SMTP id p24mr2836358edm.50.1566542704004; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 23:45:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 23:44:52 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Curved aluminum radiators. To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000065d0500590c325ca" --00000000000065d0500590c325ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well Charlie, that cheap one on ebay is now on it's way to me to inspect, cut, experiment, etc. Even that one while it is a paltry $35 with free shipping to ya'll down south of the borderline, it came to $80 canadian pesos after shipping and exchange, but while it always sucks to throw money at something I'm probably not going to be able to use, in the big picture of this project it's not worth worrying about. The new one on ebay, for $116 would actually end up costing $221 by the time I got it. So up here when an Item is available on Amazon's canadian site, it's usually a much better deal than ebay. Bill, we have one motorsport salvage place here in town and they have far more snowmobile and ATV stuff than motorcycle. Snowmobiles have aluminum heat exchangers in the tunnel above the track, so nothing that would be suitable for our needs, but the newer, large side by side ATV's do have some pretty nice rads that could be made to work if needed, but for now I'm hoping this curved rad will be the ticket. As far as the amount of heat that the bikes put out; I consider that most of the time these bikes are not putting out max HP for long enough to overload the system. But just for giggles, lets assume that the rad is designed to cool a continuous 120hp (which is not likely) and I'm planning on on putting 2 of them in there for a total of 240hp of heat rejection. Now I doubt I'm pulling anywhere near that much out of my turbo rotary with a mild 6psi of boost, but lets just say I am. I'm only doing that for a limited amount of time on take-off and climb. And further consider that 1/3 of my heat is being rejected by the great new Fluidyne oil cooler (converted to a 2-pass) that all but completely eliminated all my oil pressure and cooling issues. So that leaves me with 160 hp worth of heat to get rid of with these 2 rads. Now consider that at best climb where I'm probably making the most heat, I'll be at ~80mph which is a high cruising speed (not top speed) for these bikes, but with a bit of effort I hope to build an inlet diffuser that can slow this airflow down somewhat. Now to further muddy the waters, the rotary does produce more heat per HP produced than a reciprocating engine so those examples given may mean nothing without a conversion to BTU's (this is where Ed would would step in and provide that sorta data) Will it work? Well, I just spent $80 to find out if I can fit them in there, with more money to follow if I can.... Todd (what do people without airplanes do with all that time and money?) C-FSTB On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 12:43 PM William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Todd, > Go to a motorcycle salvage yard and ASK FOR A DAMAGED RADIATOR. They will > likely let you have it super cheap since they can=E2=80=99t easily sell t= o their > regular customers. You can then cut it up with no worries. > Bill Jepson > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 2:32 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> I'm considering making some changes to my cooling system as it is not >> adequate when flying low & slow, as on recent flights on a few hot days. >> I'm still using a set of evap cores as they fit the limited space on eit= her >> side of the PSRU in an RV cowl. >> Bill Jepson made mention of a curved radiator earlier this summer, >> which as been simmering on a hot spot way back in my brain ever since. I= 've >> spent the last few days looking real hard at the idea. >> The size and shape of the curve looks like it would conform quite nicely >> to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top of the rad would be >> perpendicular to the airflow while the bottom will curve away. This woul= d >> require a new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of this, but that wo= uld >> allow for more time and room to slow down the airflow for greater >> efficiency. It would also almost double the square inches of cooling are= a >> than I currently have, however as it is thinner it would provide half of >> the cubic inches of volume as I currently have. >> The small thick rads I currently use were chosen more with high speeds >> in mind (well, and of course ease of installation), but now I'm thinking >> that I'd rather have a thinner rad that would perform better on the grou= nd >> and in slow flight. These curved rads seem like they could offer some >> advantages. >> I've just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $148CAD with free shippin= g >> (x2)which seems pretty resonable, so for $300, it might offer a signific= ant >> cooling upgrade.... or maybe not. >> I wish I could find an old one to cut open to inspect, test weld, check >> for fit, etc. >> >> Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I'm on the edge so it >> wouldn't take much to push me over, or pull me back.... >> >> >> Todd Bartrim >> > --00000000000065d0500590c325ca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0Well Charlie, that cheap one on ebay is now on it= 9;s way to me to inspect, cut, experiment, etc. Even that one while it is a= paltry $35 with free shipping to ya'll down south of the borderline, i= t came to $80 canadian pesos after shipping and exchange, but while it alwa= ys sucks to throw money at something I'm probably not going to be able = to use, in the big picture of this project it's not worth worrying abou= t. The new one on ebay, for $116 would actually end up costing $221 by the = time I got it. So up here when an Item is available on Amazon's canadia= n site, it's usually a much better deal than ebay.
=C2=A0 Bill, we = have one motorsport salvage place here in town and they have far more snowm= obile and ATV stuff than motorcycle. Snowmobiles have aluminum heat exchang= ers in the tunnel above the track, so nothing that would be suitable for ou= r needs, but the newer, large side by side ATV's do have some pretty ni= ce rads that could be made to work if needed, but for now I'm hoping th= is curved rad will be the ticket.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0As far as the amou= nt of heat that the bikes put out; I consider that most of the time these b= ikes are not putting out max HP for long enough to overload the system. But= just for giggles, lets assume that the rad is designed to cool a continuou= s 120hp (which is not likely) and I'm planning on on putting 2 of them = in there for a total of 240hp of heat rejection. Now I doubt I'm pullin= g anywhere near that much out of my turbo rotary with a mild 6psi of boost,= but lets just say I am. I'm only doing that for a limited amount of ti= me on take-off and climb. And further consider that 1/3 of my heat is being= rejected by the great new Fluidyne oil cooler (converted to a 2-pass) that= all but completely eliminated all my oil pressure and cooling issues. So t= hat leaves me with 160 hp worth of heat to get rid of with these 2 rads. No= w consider that at best climb where I'm probably making the most heat, = I'll be at ~80mph which is a high cruising speed (not top speed) for th= ese bikes, but with a bit of effort I hope to build an inlet diffuser that = can slow this airflow down somewhat. Now to further muddy the waters, the r= otary does produce more heat per HP produced than a reciprocating engine so= those examples given may mean nothing without a conversion to BTU's (t= his is where Ed would would step in and provide that sorta data)
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Will it work? Well, I just spent $80 to find out if I can fit = them in there, with more money to follow if I can....

<= div>Todd=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(what do people without ai= rplanes do with all that time and money?)
C-FSTB



On Thu, Aug 2= 2, 2019 at 12:43 PM William Jepson wrjj= rs@gmail.com <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Todd,
Go to a motorcycle salvage yard and ASK FOR A DAMAGED RADIATOR. They wil= l likely let you have it super cheap since they can=E2=80=99t easily sell t= o their regular customers. You can then cut it up with no worries.
Bill Jepson

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 2:32 AM Todd Bartrim= bartrim@gmail.com <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I'm considering making some ch= anges to my cooling system as it is not adequate when flying low & slow= , as on recent flights on a few hot days. I'm still using a set of evap= cores as they fit the limited space on either side of the PSRU in an RV co= wl.
=C2=A0 Bill Jepson made mention of a curved radiator earlier this s= ummer, which as been simmering on a hot spot way back in my brain ever sinc= e. I've spent the last few days looking real hard at the idea.
The size and shape of the curve looks like it would conform quite nicely = to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top of the rad would be perpendic= ular to the airflow while the bottom will curve away. This would require a = new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of this, but that would allow for= more time and room to slow down the airflow for greater efficiency. It wou= ld also almost double the square inches of cooling area than I currently ha= ve, however as it is thinner it would provide half of the cubic inches of v= olume as I currently have.
=C2=A0The small thick rads I currently= use were chosen more with high speeds in mind (well, and of course ease of= installation), but now I'm thinking that I'd rather have a thinner= rad that would perform better on the ground and in slow flight. These curv= ed rads seem like they could offer some advantages.
=C2=A0 I'= ve just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $148CAD with free shipping (x2)w= hich seems pretty resonable, so for $300, it might offer a significant cool= ing upgrade.... or maybe not.
I wish I could find an old one to c= ut open to inspect, test weld, check for fit, etc.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I'm on the edge so it woul= dn't take much to push me over, or pull me back....


Todd Bartrim
--00000000000065d0500590c325ca--