X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=T4/ysMCQ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=M2EFxo/+f7Aw5m79rD+wPg==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=-JYYlCw4qs0A:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=fxJAN5q4AAAA:8 a=CjxXgO3LAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=JoQWYm39AAAA:8 a=Z9HtJp6Xgby9h_o7cEwA:9 a=F89OeBH4NWRwCBKD:21 a=6ZGnvVITT8PLtaxB:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=wSBXHttoqRNJMnQ0GnEA:9 a=xrgke1O63LtecQtY:21 a=NWjtF9y_nLRMMtOQ:21 a=ppm0bSZ2cBx6UYyn:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=hxQmRmZaj7Kc3H0CF-Px:22 From: "RD Reyenga 85rotary7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-lf1-f42.google.com ([209.85.167.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12873448 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:19:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.42; envelope-from=85rotary7@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id n19so5193624lfe.13 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:19:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6eVMO/xocP5tMDHjpOEWSZ/ikBZav2YIxCz4tj4DXtQ=; b=C6g8SXzXRVHUn+yV7gdJHWW+htgZfiXGzHL305BKGOLVHabJqC0d03Yz9pqsqTWDLE tVMj5e82ful10P26bPf5fOz6ngOdmyV/m/kclFaqtdP8eIStrLoJCkULdzx6jeY8TIhB 7gRcGMAOOO6AuQlvcsI1JYW+lC+fsEP1a1kGiipLNjx/df2coIEZo15BuQ7AkKJroD0A 0VuyYPMTdqJ1/cFAuF4pZjM7v5f9oPYtWE7kW5GvEXx/ZNTxOShJsJYKNTrzbLeRcAsP nLKffWDQUiF1XMHRVVxJRkGws7xp3ARqFMiYe3ZFziWiEPz99wU+FEKtRI6F4QaAFmYu 3qKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=6eVMO/xocP5tMDHjpOEWSZ/ikBZav2YIxCz4tj4DXtQ=; b=iI/LXMIn+zns0ggu2oowgIZVhq4XNcCgfGwbhpnzYfFD6qUENeggSdPNhM0AtP3hG5 BKDG2l9yyX1VkrpqoiI42rvkyPyZ7SLsiEVdjJ+Epp1WVYwOXoj2e/wpbz+lcxe+muVL Fd8AsHe2kUM7d7s9iz/zmVjB0OctwwCpqolfzwqHLmbgvyBumyelkh7mPLhZXu37C1rd WW8bRaR0952sfGqhC/jCkkjB2CR+cyuBQwNAL1xplxWbxru/ZUuzUqK/uiKfs6INNxw8 9x4qms9FEZ4i+j3o4i/EzXNzX93BiN/XeXK2LygYeoi0V/s1oHQCXBa3eiUwk6xxhdAo Q2BA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWJ1bsHK05UvQC1567pWmRXOsCvE9+BDFBk4nBU1aKQ1n3TB2ok w70io/1fV9A5iKrYp6qHbbL1IqOqc5q848wMUHqY X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzR5u36GzwgjFX0TessCKiwmwJSgBULekK8Z6btk8JHFMgqza/gqvlF6WLAONgnAGfpGU1GnvGxYjTnztO6WQo= X-Received: by 2002:a19:8c57:: with SMTP id i23mr260026lfj.192.1566497935787; Thu, 22 Aug 2019 11:18:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:18:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Curved aluminum radiators. To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000109ec0590b8b9c8" --0000000000000109ec0590b8b9c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Fair comment about using all the available power however, my GSXR 750 never goes above 80C with sustained power use. More importantly, at idle when there is no external airflow, the heat rises quickly to close to the boiling point. The tiny thermally activated fan is remarkably good at generating just enough flow through the curved radiator to keep the heat down. My assessment is that Suzuki has optimized the curved rad, frontal area, cowling and fan quite well so there is merit in assessing it for our rotary engine use. I'm restoring a Suzuki RE5 rotary and intend to try out curved radiators and cowling vs the massive rectangular radiator Suzuki designed in 1975. Dave On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley echristley@att.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > There bikes can make 200Hp, but how long can a rider use the power? The > small radiator requirements may be deceptive. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:29 AM, jay bendlin drhyed@yahoo.com > wrote: > I think if you start exploring motorcycle cooling you may find some > solution. Most sportbikes have been making 120-200+ hp for 20 years now and > most use curved rads, and many sport touring and endro type bikes have > unique cooling solutions, if you start doing google image searches you will > probably find ideas left and right. I had a Honda RC-51 that used very > small (in my opinion) side-mounted radiators, you could also look at Honda > VFR radiators (came in several engines sizes 750-800), also small side > mounts but they were not curved. Its amazing how much horsepower can be > cooled with such small frontal area, but that's where engineers earn their > keep. > > On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 10:44:58 AM EDT, Rob McMillan > robmcmillanpls@gmail.com wrote: > > > $148 to cut one open would suck, but might it be worth knowing before > getting 2 more and doing a bunch of ducting... > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019, 2:32 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > I'm considering making some changes to my cooling system as it is not > adequate when flying low & slow, as on recent flights on a few hot days. > I'm still using a set of evap cores as they fit the limited space on either > side of the PSRU in an RV cowl. > Bill Jepson made mention of a curved radiator earlier this summer, which > as been simmering on a hot spot way back in my brain ever since. I've spent > the last few days looking real hard at the idea. > The size and shape of the curve looks like it would conform quite nicely > to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top of the rad would be > perpendicular to the airflow while the bottom will curve away. This would > require a new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of this, but that would > allow for more time and room to slow down the airflow for greater > efficiency. It would also almost double the square inches of cooling area > than I currently have, however as it is thinner it would provide half of > the cubic inches of volume as I currently have. > The small thick rads I currently use were chosen more with high speeds in > mind (well, and of course ease of installation), but now I'm thinking that > I'd rather have a thinner rad that would perform better on the ground and > in slow flight. These curved rads seem like they could offer some > advantages. > I've just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $148CAD with free shipping > (x2)which seems pretty resonable, so for $300, it might offer a significant > cooling upgrade.... or maybe not. > I wish I could find an old one to cut open to inspect, test weld, check > for fit, etc. > > Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I'm on the edge so it wouldn't > take much to push me over, or pull me back.... > > Todd Bartrim > > --0000000000000109ec0590b8b9c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fair comment about using all the available power howe= ver, my GSXR 750 never goes above 80C=C2=A0with sustained power use. More i= mportantly, at idle when there is no external=C2=A0airflow, the heat rises = quickly to close to the boiling point. The tiny=C2=A0thermally activated fa= n is remarkably good at generating just enough flow through the curved radi= ator to keep the heat down. My assessment is that Suzuki has optimized the = curved rad, frontal area, cowling and fan=C2=A0quite well so there is merit= in assessing it for our rotary engine use. I'm restoring a Suzuki RE5 = rotary and intend to try out curved radiators and cowling vs the massive re= ctangular radiator Suzuki designed in 1975.

Dave

On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley echristley@att.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
There bikes can make 200Hp, but how long can a rider use the = power? The small radiator requirements may be deceptive.


On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 11:29 AM, jay bendlin drhyed@yahoo.com
I think if you start exploring motorcycle cooling = you may find some solution. Most sportbikes have been making 120-200+ hp fo= r 20 years now and most use curved rads, and many sport touring and endro t= ype bikes have unique cooling solutions, if you start doing google image se= arches you will probably find ideas left and right. I had a Honda RC-51 tha= t used very small (in my opinion) side-mounted radiators, you could also lo= ok at Honda VFR radiators (came in several engines sizes 750-800), also sma= ll side mounts but they were not curved. Its amazing how much horsepower ca= n be cooled with such small frontal area, but that's where engineers ea= rn their keep.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=20
=20
On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 10:44:58 AM EDT, Rob McMi= llan robmcmil= lanpls@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


$148=C2=A0to cut one open wou= ld suck, but might it be worth knowing before getting 2 more and doing a bu= nch of ducting...

On Th= u, Aug 22, 2019, 2:32 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I'= ;m considering making some changes to my cooling system as it is not adequa= te when flying low & slow, as on recent flights on a few hot days. I= 9;m still using a set of evap cores as they fit the limited space on either= side of the PSRU in an RV cowl.
=C2=A0 Bill Jepson made mention of a c= urved radiator earlier this summer, which as been simmering on a hot spot w= ay back in my brain ever since. I've spent the last few days looking re= al hard at the idea.
The size and shape of the curve looks like i= t would conform quite nicely to the bottom of the RV cowl. so that the top = of the rad would be perpendicular to the airflow while the bottom will curv= e away. This would require a new ducts to be glassed to take advantage of t= his, but that would allow for more time and room to slow down the airflow f= or greater efficiency. It would also almost double the square inches of coo= ling area than I currently have, however as it is thinner it would provide = half of the cubic inches of volume as I currently have.
=C2=A0The= small thick rads I currently use were chosen more with high speeds in mind= (well, and of course ease of installation), but now I'm thinking that = I'd rather have a thinner rad that would perform better on the ground a= nd in slow flight. These curved rads seem like they could offer some advant= ages.
=C2=A0 I've just found them listed on Amazon.ca for $14= 8CAD with free shipping (x2)which seems pretty resonable, so for $300, it m= ight offer a significant cooling upgrade.... or maybe not.
I wish= I could find an old one to cut open to inspect, test weld, check for fit, = etc.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the idea? I= 'm on the edge so it wouldn't take much to push me over, or pull me= back....

Todd Bartrim
--0000000000000109ec0590b8b9c8--