From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Received-SPF: pass
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.52; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_22720450.957636946007"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:30:39 -0400
Message-ID: <c9399327-19cd-405a-a41a-23a2ed4bf220@getmailbird.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Slide throttle issues with engine dieing
To: "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-12564571@logan.com>
References: <list-12564571@logan.com>
User-Agent: Mailbird/2.5.43.0

------=_NextPart_22720450.957636946007
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I believe the stock RX8 throttle body is 70mm. Going with the 80mm leaves r=
oom for a turbo down the road :) I'll start planning out to fiberglass a ne=
w intake and remove the slide.

The slide throttle actually slides really nice for me, even at idle now. To=
ok a few things to get it that way though. The only problem I have, if I ro=
ck the plane at low idle, the struggles to keep rpm. My only guess is, sinc=
e the injectors are before the throttle, it's pooling or collecting on the =
side walls. Shaking it, causes pockets of raw fuel to be dumped in. I can't=
 think of any other reason. As soon as you are over 1200rpm prop, it's a ch=
amp.

https://youtu.be/v5dmwZPGhmc


- Matt Boiteau
On 2019-05-15 10:39:31 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancairon=
line.net> wrote:
The slide throttle is used where the rules allow for only a small intake ru=
nner. No choke area is used so it only works with fuel injection. Also ther=
e is no loss of diameter caused by a throttle shaft.=C2=A0 So, the allowed =
runner diameter can be used all through the runner.


Lucas slide valves are expensive but work perfectly.=C2=A0 Throttle bodies =
are cheap and work well. If you get to maximum RPM before you have full thr=
ottle, after playing with timing and FA ratio then your Throttle body may b=
e too large.=C2=A0 A home made slide throttle is just added complexity nobo=
dy needs, In my opinion.

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 5/15/2019 7:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la=
ncaironline.net writes:

Matt,
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Oh dear, you also have a slide throttle???=C2=
=A0 I also put one on the first attempt linked to a vernier throttle cable.=
=C2=A0 It worked well if you were content to "wind" the throttle open and s=
hut with the vernier.=C2=A0 However on my teat flight my pilot went to push=
 the throttle open and he nearly ended up in the back seat pushing and coul=
d not get the throttle to budge.=C2=A0 Sadly he failed my aircraft, with go=
od cause for the "what if" was the need for an immediate Go around. just wo=
uld not be very instant!!.=C2=A0 IN a temper I had to totally redo my throt=
tle assembly.=C2=A0 I ended sending the assembly back to Paul and asked wha=
t was wrong that it refused to "slide":=C2=A0 I am still awaiting a reply o=
n the topic.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I ended replacing it with a dual throttle body tha=
t sadly did jnot match the holes exactly, so much work went into adapting.=
=C2=A0 It ended up being brilliant -- will attach a photo if I can find one=
--- but as always very expensive.=C2=A0 Had the injectors and all self cont=
ained.
ON another engine I put a large throttle body which was too big for I got t=
o full noise at 80% opening.=C2=A0 The ideal size for a dingle throttle bod=
y seems to be 70 to 75mm dia.=C2=A0 I suggest others chime in here as I am =
going from memory which with me is a bad move!!!
Matt, as sad as it is I really suggest you replace the slide throttle as a =
proper slide throttle as lots of seals and bearings to take the suction, wh=
ich again makes them very dear.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0Another option which may not suit is to put dual Rotek=C2=A0 carbies =
on.=C2=A0 They are OZ and cost approx $500 USD each=C2=A0 --- again my memo=
ry!!=C2=A0 I am told they are great value, but you will have to alter fuel =
pressure to start with=C2=A0 9% psi).
Neil.
On 5/14/2019 3:27 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com [mailto:mattboitea=
u@gmail.com] wrote:
I have a good one for you guys. I've been trying to get a slide throttle to=
 work. Lots of fixing to make it usable, mainly at lower RPM when the sucti=
on is at it's highest. Lapped the outer plates flat, machined down the thic=
kness of the inside slide, doubled up all the bolts to seal fuel from leaki=
ng, and stiffened up the throttle cable every few inches. BUT now that I am=
 taxing around, this issue is coming up and I think it has to do with havin=
g the injectors before the slide throttle. I think...

When I taxi (under 1100rpm prop) and start to step on the brakes, the engin=
e drops a few hundred RPM and struggles. If I pull power to idle to slow do=
wn before tuning (600rpm prop), the engine will die. Unless I catch it in t=
ime, and stab the throttle. The right brake is more pronounced then the lef=
t.=C2=A0Even though the wideband is showing a quick lean condition, I've tr=
ied riching up / leaning out the mixture at those lower rpm's to no results=
. Once I get past 1200rpm prop and the engine is starting to breath, no iss=
ues at higher powers.


So we tried an experiment while idling and shook the plane left/right, it r=
eproduces the engine dieing. I did see a quick puff of black out the tailpi=
pe. That make me think at low idle, with the slide opening moves right to l=
eft, the fuel is pooling at the bottom of the opening. The shaking is causi=
ng raw fuel to make it's way in pass the opening. Drilled a few small holes=
 at the bottom of the slide to hopefully suck in any raw fuel that tries to=
 pool. It's helped a tiny bit, but if I shake the intake, the engine still =
isn't happy at idle.

I don't have a video of the engine running (will get it tomorrow), but here=
's a video of the intake setup.
https://youtu.be/tuwBkDuKh9Q [https://youtu.be/tuwBkDuKh9Q]


I'm tempted to remove the slide throttle and put in a=C2=A0standard=C2=A03"=
 throttle body on my intake box (ie, before injectors). Just want to get yo=
ur guy's thoughts if I'm on the right track. And if anybody is running a sl=
ide throttle.?

- Matt Boiteau
--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ [http://www.flyrotary.com/]
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L=
ist.html [http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html]

------=_NextPart_22720450.957636946007
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div id=3D"__MailbirdStyleContent" style=3D"font-size: 10pt;font-family: Ar=
ial;color: #000000">=0A                                        I believe th=
e stock RX8 throttle body is 70mm. Going with the 80mm leaves room for a tu=
rbo down the road :) I'll start planning out to fiberglass a new intake and=
 remove the slide.<div><br></div><div>The slide throttle actually slides re=
ally nice for me, even at idle now. Took a few things to get it that way th=
ough. The only problem I have, if I rock the plane at low idle, the struggl=
es to keep rpm. My only guess is, since the injectors are before the thrott=
le, it's pooling or collecting on the side walls. Shaking it, causes pocket=
s of raw fuel to be dumped in. I can't think of any other reason. As soon a=
s you are over 1200rpm prop, it's a champ.<br><br>https://youtu.be/v5dmwZPG=
hmc</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div class=3D"mb_sig"=
>- Matt Boiteau</div>=0A                                        <blockquote=
 class=3D"history_container" type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style: soli=
d;border-width: 1px;margin-top: 20px;margin-left: 0px;padding-left: 10px;mi=
n-width: 500px">=0A                        <p style=3D"color: #AAAAAA; marg=
in-top: 10px;">On 2019-05-15 10:39:31 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com &lt;f=
lyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt; wrote:</p><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,He=
lvetica,sans-serif"><div>=0A<div class=3D"userEdit" style=3D"font-family: a=
rial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt;color: #000000">=0A<div><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt;color: #0=
00000">The slide throttle is used where the rules allow for only a small in=
take runner. No choke area is used so it only works with fuel injection. Al=
so there is no loss of diameter caused by a throttle shaft.&nbsp; So, the a=
llowed runner diameter can be used all through the runner.<br></span></div>=
=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, san=
s-serif;font-size: 10pt;color: #000000">Lucas slide valves are expensive bu=
t work perfectly.&nbsp; Throttle bodies are cheap and work well. If you get=
 to maximum RPM before you have full throttle, after playing with timing an=
d FA ratio then your Throttle body may be too large.&nbsp; A home made slid=
e throttle is just added complexity nobody needs, In my opinion.</span></di=
v>=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, s=
ans-serif;font-size: 10pt;color: #000000">Lynn E. Hanover</span></div>=0A<d=
iv><span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt=
;color: #000000"><br></span></div>=0A</div>=0AIn a message dated 5/15/2019 =
7:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:=0A<di=
v><br></div>=0A<div class=3D"quotedReply">=0A<blockquote style=3D"padding-l=
eft: 5px;margin-left: 5px;border-left: blue 2px solid;min-width: 500px">=0A=
<div id=3D"yiv1995370028">=0A<div>=0A<p>Matt,</p>=0A<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Oh dear, you also have a slide throttle???&nbsp; I also put one on =
the first attempt linked to a vernier throttle cable.&nbsp; It worked well =
if you were content to "wind" the throttle open and shut with the vernier.&=
nbsp; However on my teat flight my pilot went to push the throttle open and=
 he nearly ended up in the back seat pushing and could not get the throttle=
 to budge.&nbsp; Sadly he failed my aircraft, with good cause for the "what=
 if" was the need for an immediate Go around. just would not be very instan=
t!!.&nbsp; IN a temper I had to totally redo my throttle assembly.&nbsp; I =
ended sending the assembly back to Paul and asked what was wrong that it re=
fused to "slide":&nbsp; I am still awaiting a reply on the topic.&nbsp;&nbs=
p; I ended replacing it with a dual throttle body that sadly did jnot match=
 the holes exactly, so much work went into adapting.&nbsp; It ended up bein=
g brilliant -- will attach a photo if I can find one--- but as always very =
expensive.&nbsp; Had the injectors and all self contained.</p>=0A<p>ON anot=
her engine I put a large throttle body which was too big for I got to full =
noise at 80% opening.&nbsp; The ideal size for a dingle throttle body seems=
 to be 70 to 75mm dia.&nbsp; I suggest others chime in here as I am going f=
rom memory which with me is a bad move!!!</p>=0A<p>Matt, as sad as it is I =
really suggest you replace the slide throttle as a proper slide throttle as=
 lots of seals and bearings to take the suction, which again makes them ver=
y dear.&nbsp;&nbsp; </p>=0A<p>&nbsp;Another option which may not suit is to=
 put dual Rotek&nbsp; carbies on.&nbsp; They are OZ and cost approx $500 US=
D each&nbsp; --- again my memory!!&nbsp; I am told they are great value, bu=
t you will have to alter fuel pressure to start with&nbsp; 9% psi).</p>=0A<=
p>Neil.</p>=0A<div class=3D"yiv1995370028moz-cite-prefix">On 5/14/2019 3:27=
 PM, Matt Boiteau <a class=3D"yiv1995370028moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=
=3D"mailto:mattboiteau@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener norefer=
rer">mattboiteau@gmail.com</a> wrote:</div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"min-widt=
h: 500px">=0A<div id=3D"yiv1995370028__MailbirdStyleContent" style=3D"font-=
size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: #000000">I have a good one for you guy=
s. I've been trying to get a slide throttle to work. Lots of fixing to make=
 it usable, mainly at lower RPM when the suction is at it's highest. Lapped=
 the outer plates flat, machined down the thickness of the inside slide, do=
ubled up all the bolts to seal fuel from leaking, and stiffened up the thro=
ttle cable every few inches. BUT now that I am taxing around, this issue is=
 coming up and I think it has to do with having the injectors before the sl=
ide throttle. I think...=0A<div><br></div>=0A<div>When I taxi (under 1100rp=
m prop) and start to step on the brakes, the engine drops a few hundred RPM=
 and struggles. If I pull power to idle to slow down before tuning (600rpm =
prop), the engine will die. Unless I catch it in time, and stab the throttl=
e. The right brake is more pronounced then the left.&nbsp;<span style=3D"fo=
nt-size: 10pt;line-height: 1.5">Even though the wideband is showing a quick=
 lean condition, I've tried riching up / leaning out the mixture at those l=
ower rpm's to no results. Once I get past 1200rpm prop and the engine is st=
arting to breath, no issues at higher powers.<br><br></span></div>=0A<div>S=
o we tried an experiment while idling and shook the plane left/right, it re=
produces the engine dieing. I did see a quick puff of black out the tailpip=
e. That make me think at low idle, with the slide opening moves right to le=
ft, the fuel is pooling at the bottom of the opening. The shaking is causin=
g raw fuel to make it's way in pass the opening. Drilled a few small holes =
at the bottom of the slide to hopefully suck in any raw fuel that tries to =
pool. It's helped a tiny bit, but if I shake the intake, the engine still i=
sn't happy at idle.<br><br>I don't have a video of the engine running (will=
 get it tomorrow), but here's a video of the intake setup.</div>=0A<div><sp=
an style=3D"font-size: 10pt"><a class=3D"yiv1995370028moz-txt-link-freetext=
" href=3D"https://youtu.be/tuwBkDuKh9Q" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener n=
oreferrer">https://youtu.be/tuwBkDuKh9Q</a></span><br><br></div>=0A<div>I'm=
 tempted to remove the slide throttle and put in a&nbsp;<span style=3D"font=
-size: 13.3333px;line-height: 1.5">standard&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10pt;line-height: 1.5">3" throttle body on my intake box (ie, before=
 injectors). Just want to get your guy's thoughts if I'm on the right track=
. And if anybody is running a slide throttle.?</span></div>=0A<div>=0A<div>=
<br></div>=0A<div class=3D"yiv1995370028mb_sig">- Matt Boiteau</div>=0A</di=
v>=0A</div>=0A</blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</div>=0A<span style=3D"background-c=
olor: transparent;color: #000000;font-family: Arial;font-size: 10pt">--<br>=
Homepage:&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.flyrotary.com/" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noopener noreferrer">http://www.flyrotary.com/</a><br>Archive and UnSub=
:&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht=
ml" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener noreferrer">http://mail.lancaironline=
.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html</a><br></span></blockquote>=0A</div>=0A</=
div></div></blockquote></div>
------=_NextPart_22720450.957636946007--