X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=JejCUnCV c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VR+/t1Yj4tZD3VhNnkAgtQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=6B9HATY5aBEA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=jJrOw3FHAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=-bVlGd7z9kwrwpoyV-0A:9 a=0uLdOptZAAyJrdFy:21 a=TCbxPZr66tkSz236:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=lDNl2lIEhZKvKMjIUR5gOGDH5rM=:19 a=D0zGIzzXhL8RJQNA:21 a=rhI7jNvmX-IxZ_8u:21 a=IcFQxtxrHqyO86Uc:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=lsIkP6lG2H4f0j7eDx0G:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=n87TN5wuljxrRezIQYnT:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic308-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.130.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12564570 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:39:07 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.130.42; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1557974330; bh=9zpxcyapXY3Ta8QPauuWR3eZPUBSXBqNsFVQSutof3Q=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=I5XXskRTa16nsZzIsv9YngpK9P3F22PHZ3FDiWUfJschYI0/Zw2vWNFWZEimELA3cbwXIQ5aUJlOQv3i9UX8gG/6KRzo2v2BLlgd17ZaOOVbuQTm1D0ncvQg4LY+1PbYMI7ZpyFNVH90oGKeNlwjE1lI7sKPLPh5AxrdSfUR8t9Q5EhfWOTkdpzWq3dyr2pAYNR++Bjdh26heJx+u4wemle+RBc511f3tL2TRUsAb2B6vn0gWw9YKVtcBfxpmPg4jQPzLE7iBxGOEeHA+ke3W4Ss91JexZzWEqXT8MWXuj4IZiUB4O6p3SGgfWIOu4S6RK3AsdPv4D8vMkRFK6KLgA== X-YMail-OSG: MBcIXdwVM1k4qJyJEe2YQ2AgyRo6IVPmYY0PsHdnDInztYiOBtbDdrYWQDWTKky XCz02efNqgQAHqQTrGgTFAjIA9bIsDx4Y4oqmyq2jRRSkN6HvOKDF1AhPhRjaR5EJMfTEdFBzMqt V2RiZ_Qj7xJthGIsoiXVpA1LD9mB1DQ.Jxd2srgIQUjRA.OFlt8fZY7GMWAHjIsOMipa.aEyz2Mk qsJntyuU3V2seEfJK4Lhr5pgLwsiajIsf.rm6SCT3pdg7L4zQ9cPowyiKYBc64SqpaKAXbSKCUS3 TGgJh1hTwIDm2nhxpozObyfGzFehfiUI_7pgmYa6niPS9dY9NJn6vnYc8494gMreq7CU1DBbmMdA g7e3P69OWVlIwmvms7Bouksw9Jl3DrBLOjl0ueaXw2SR7Z3p9SBLXlGq3_VYp340IyvW_tVMha7Y ITn.Z5LdWz44MMLAunF3PFAx2xQAc_2L3bzIUVZ55SLxMGv5mHaDN.fu_e9_R.JUcFmcVR_2eT.i sfEavVIcZljgMapwFSHPiO6fbjKdZD1EZxT79oI0kJSYm4zO6HrrY3.PaoWbDsK24iVA5jaMwGfS ZLkCspsJCv_fUXH4Zq286VG6d_JCdxkXLYZ255_rm4JsytnTVM0PYB9OlTTWo.B2QvNACLINK8mq J8zwDWhxKuUmQLY2HLauQbpHKcKBKA1rP2zorq_GtiAmeMslVTLhMm_emSzIvBu_lyeFpJWaQ0Ud gK0wUP1Vzzpd1q22Dw4d4wUG1Nd.mqvEH1Jo2PGAVqir3ToJMP4vIUFoUBXpOelltEPD07zG7h9u 6AnFhvN67TtLRd1k5LajteWukRsUswZ3TS7mTlBp.zZlzF5oWInp41U29ehSyyxVKvDKQYcEmxVv JQISld9AkZt3I9J5IZARjmAEkmmRW2NiysaapFBYYgJWXKTG.eQUOqVq_F9TaWe2GEl.L_Ro4hec qoD6rWu5hNMuKeapvsXALMVom5TYb7on2m0cOmoJ.NER4eTCgq4pQFRznOPfcwQsee6EQsvzdiTQ OQuQBha76F6CDUKtEY8mxrsr_9.7bop2lWbpl1aw.FChpNw2o7iTXJe4jQADo6jqWHbPNcKHEwsd rCCOzBPG.zgd5D9yOlPEqGa9l2wVzGJxFD0Pn4X09Y1E- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic308.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 May 2019 02:38:50 +0000 Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 02:38:46 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1544400814.1111055.1557974326571@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Slide throttle issues with engine dieing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1111054_2024185971.1557974326569" References: <1544400814.1111055.1557974326571.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13634 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 12154 ------=_Part_1111054_2024185971.1557974326569 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The slide throttle is used where the rules allow for only a small intake ru= nner. No choke area is used so it only works with fuel injection. Also ther= e is no loss of diameter caused by a throttle shaft.=C2=A0 So, the allowed = runner diameter can be used all through the runner. Lucas slide valves are expensive but work perfectly.=C2=A0 Throttle bodies = are cheap and work well. If you get to maximum RPM before you have full thr= ottle, after playing with timing and FA ratio then your Throttle body may b= e too large.=C2=A0 A home made slide throttle is just added complexity nobo= dy needs, In my opinion. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 5/15/2019 7:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Matt, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Oh dear, you also have a slide throttle???=C2= =A0 I also put one on the first attempt linked to a vernier throttle cable.= =C2=A0 It worked well if you were content to "wind" the throttle open and s= hut with the vernier.=C2=A0 However on my teat flight my pilot went to push= the throttle open and he nearly ended up in the back seat pushing and coul= d not get the throttle to budge.=C2=A0 Sadly he failed my aircraft, with go= od cause for the "what if" was the need for an immediate Go around. just wo= uld not be very instant!!.=C2=A0 IN a temper I had to totally redo my throt= tle assembly.=C2=A0 I ended sending the assembly back to Paul and asked wha= t was wrong that it refused to "slide":=C2=A0 I am still awaiting a reply o= n the topic.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I ended replacing it with a dual throttle body tha= t sadly did jnot match the holes exactly, so much work went into adapting.= =C2=A0 It ended up being brilliant -- will attach a photo if I can find one= --- but as always very expensive.=C2=A0 Had the injectors and all self cont= ained. ON another engine I put a large throttle body which was too big for I got t= o full noise at 80% opening.=C2=A0 The ideal size for a dingle throttle bod= y seems to be 70 to 75mm dia.=C2=A0 I suggest others chime in here as I am = going from memory which with me is a bad move!!! Matt, as sad as it is I really suggest you replace the slide throttle as a = proper slide throttle as lots of seals and bearings to take the suction, wh= ich again makes them very dear.=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0Another option which may not suit is to put dual Rotek=C2=A0 carbies = on.=C2=A0 They are OZ and cost approx $500 USD each=C2=A0 --- again my memo= ry!!=C2=A0 I am told they are great value, but you will have to alter fuel = pressure to start with=C2=A0 9% psi). Neil. On 5/14/2019 3:27 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote: I have a good one for you guys. I've been trying to get a slide throttle to= work. Lots of fixing to make it usable, mainly at lower RPM when the sucti= on is at it's highest. Lapped the outer plates flat, machined down the thic= kness of the inside slide, doubled up all the bolts to seal fuel from leaki= ng, and stiffened up the throttle cable every few inches. BUT now that I am= taxing around, this issue is coming up and I think it has to do with havin= g the injectors before the slide throttle. I think... When I taxi (under 1100rpm prop) and start to step on the brakes, the engin= e drops a few hundred RPM and struggles. If I pull power to idle to slow do= wn before tuning (600rpm prop), the engine will die. Unless I catch it in t= ime, and stab the throttle. The right brake is more pronounced then the lef= t.=C2=A0Even though the wideband is showing a quick lean condition, I've tr= ied riching up / leaning out the mixture at those lower rpm's to no results= . Once I get past 1200rpm prop and the engine is starting to breath, no iss= ues at higher powers. So we tried an experiment while idling and shook the plane left/right, it r= eproduces the engine dieing. I did see a quick puff of black out the tailpi= pe. That make me think at low idle, with the slide opening moves right to l= eft, the fuel is pooling at the bottom of the opening. The shaking is causi= ng raw fuel to make it's way in pass the opening. Drilled a few small holes= at the bottom of the slide to hopefully suck in any raw fuel that tries to= pool. It's helped a tiny bit, but if I shake the intake, the engine still = isn't happy at idle. I don't have a video of the engine running (will get it tomorrow), but here= 's a video of the intake setup.https://youtu.be/tuwBkDuKh9Q I'm tempted to remove the slide throttle and put in a=C2=A0standard=C2=A03"= throttle body on my intake box (ie, before injectors). Just want to get yo= ur guy's thoughts if I'm on the right track. And if anybody is running a sl= ide throttle.? - Matt Boiteau -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_1111054_2024185971.1557974326569 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The slide throttle is used where the rules allow for = only a small intake runner. No choke area is used so it only works with fue= l injection. Also there is no loss of diameter caused by a throttle shaft.&= nbsp; So, the allowed runner diameter can be used all through the runner.

Lucas slide valves are expensive but work perfectly.&= nbsp; Throttle bodies are cheap and work well. If you get to maximum RPM be= fore you have full throttle, after playing with timing and FA ratio then yo= ur Throttle body may be too large.  A home made slide throttle is just= added complexity nobody needs, In my opinion.

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 5/15/2019 7:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes:

Matt,

            =       Oh dear, you also have a slide throttle???&n= bsp; I also put one on the first attempt linked to a vernier throttle cable= .  It worked well if you were content to "wind" the throttle open and = shut with the vernier.  However on my teat flight my pilot went to pus= h the throttle open and he nearly ended up in the back seat pushing and cou= ld not get the throttle to budge.  Sadly he failed my aircraft, with g= ood cause for the "what if" was the need for an immediate Go around. just w= ould not be very instant!!.  IN a temper I had to totally redo my thro= ttle assembly.  I ended sending the assembly back to Paul and asked wh= at was wrong that it refused to "slide":  I am still awaiting a reply = on the topic.   I ended replacing it with a dual throttle body th= at sadly did jnot match the holes exactly, so much work went into adapting.=   It ended up being brilliant -- will attach a photo if I can find one= --- but as always very expensive.  Had the injectors and all self cont= ained.

ON another engine I put a large throttle body which was too big for I go= t to full noise at 80% opening.  The ideal size for a dingle throttle = body seems to be 70 to 75mm dia.  I suggest others chime in here as I = am going from memory which with me is a bad move!!!

Matt, as sad as it is I really suggest you replace the slide throttle as= a proper slide throttle as lots of seals and bearings to take the suction,= which again makes them very dear.  

 Another option which may not suit is to put dual Rotek  carbi= es on.  They are OZ and cost approx $500 USD each  --- again my m= emory!!  I am told they are great value, but you will have to alter fu= el pressure to start with  9% psi).

Neil.

On 5/14/2019 3:27 PM, Matt Boit= eau mattboiteau= @gmail.com wrote:
I have a good one for you guys. I've be= en trying to get a slide throttle to work. Lots of fixing to make it usable= , mainly at lower RPM when the suction is at it's highest. Lapped the outer= plates flat, machined down the thickness of the inside slide, doubled up a= ll the bolts to seal fuel from leaking, and stiffened up the throttle cable= every few inches. BUT now that I am taxing around, this issue is coming up= and I think it has to do with having the injectors before the slide thrott= le. I think...

When I taxi (under 1100rpm prop) and start to step on the brakes, the = engine drops a few hundred RPM and struggles. If I pull power to idle to sl= ow down before tuning (600rpm prop), the engine will die. Unless I catch it= in time, and stab the throttle. The right brake is more pronounced then th= e left. Even though= the wideband is showing a quick lean condition, I've tried riching up / le= aning out the mixture at those lower rpm's to no results. Once I get past 1= 200rpm prop and the engine is starting to breath, no issues at higher power= s.

So we tried an experiment while idling and shook the plane left/right,= it reproduces the engine dieing. I did see a quick puff of black out the t= ailpipe. That make me think at low idle, with the slide opening moves right= to left, the fuel is pooling at the bottom of the opening. The shaking is = causing raw fuel to make it's way in pass the opening. Drilled a few small = holes at the bottom of the slide to hopefully suck in any raw fuel that tri= es to pool. It's helped a tiny bit, but if I shake the intake, the engine s= till isn't happy at idle.

I don't have a video of the engine running= (will get it tomorrow), but here's a video of the intake setup.
I'm tempted to remove the slide throttle and put in a standard 3" throttle body on my intake box= (ie, before injectors). Just want to get your guy's thoughts if I'm on the= right track. And if anybody is running a slide throttle.?

- Matt Boiteau
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrota= ry.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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