X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=JejCUnCV c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=X7plGht+QIyZwKrx2JZdMA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=vU4nFQfdXkUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Wc2Cld0rYLUW65OCkLQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=tUKu7KUHcAvJ4RdN:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic315-13.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.134.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12557045 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 13 May 2019 13:28:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.134.123; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1557768499; bh=0ojz9ecCKFNOOD1T6C8Oc+w8NgD+fRjhQIgXqJJaOTs=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=l6vzVJ1jGa+BJKTyMiIPqHT69cVGSXYGwIdNm9OpMxxsTq+e0GWTgv15OKGqFEH2trc1Js/g4hzsP+WOLJXdDhd2TlXA/hGCIV/l8hnDQIe5Q/rWJoVzNQmzLcd9qpwXa/P9QQpWaWuvMwykAZG1YLI5awiNzg1IT8fiNxysCfvCKM4hwjQQh6gGdFn/68zdn7hM/VYQi6TpN0TruH5FHt0ikfnSgRoqzWNZtSuyciwdAn8ZdHI6YU7URa5kKP1duM9N+ZWIweplzdMxsLjrnShdqmut1TJ6Q1YBST3pCTKXVMB4FxGtkolzhgqZ2+6/SdY0nAbvnkRB10OhY5FN1g== X-YMail-OSG: L5xJttkVM1nNFBaROnLWAfL6JsIjS4sqtNoJ_6PZI.DcVC0jLN2AKbBPe.IySa8 wqzeNSBVhoxWXjvAjObXS7zIae4FqfAshmqc9G_Sm4y8c19vqoxb_OolSMraZO8gWuJQo8Ch5csR orGkcR3xvz3QVAcoa.H35T2PZ4.vZ4VBLoZhk4XswjvcVKS7evE_FUlwI2DkJn1tQC20jnd2zh.u .TUuUi.f.B8NuVtUNXDvMO6RTuY4wWt0gBnGUruGKOMD.37KiSjKRGnjLJJu0LhgA_71vM7m4ybS 59MuYYn7KAlfyBzreAmi8NjK0LoEiPwjWoGFzr24UYvA4rhnMv1.Q4QilwrK.638TxqyA2HvwBU4 uxcfutt4ToAR3CuPBiCyYkJsxn5cXNLFy1L.UUZViM2BQFfZAMW0Etnh3eSvFcoMaXIXODPOzO8X PQXOf1GL.agRb5gcqep6nk05ZBCQavKqN_sSquo9umxpjgFP30RlnzBoTV8O.ApUEUljWGXrPXs_ 02dCih772o0TlLsdhXjUuq5AI7eWRYAamndL5fqA18gJeWDrq7zKIam5W4K6Pg1txPUQuafeX.6G KKLpb80rQz7KXR.hAL_HzG8JqvPCPLIDZ.8cwEBTJBotYhZnmeE1L5mN1S2UswVt1Gc0V36EBJsF 5xmgQvrzkZnu3eSp2rUteN5k3s_ATGLOeV1mRvaG8iGiiUUS2JUzgZw5AxRHstqVEj5f.C9yzj5V qtAnr9yfT9UUUc0YH6AiQ5K1rR4p7dBesIY014RJz76AtbfNUJPkDJfotz5SL8zihmSdXRoxC3H4 5ka8BFvTVEq6.TphRZ2zC5tdmNi7aZeveZ1YPFKpLgu1qt5V.DTMe5TEz0FYCLqWmbkKlJsMqlRm pqEJzuU26KZqE7lWDgqeJhjdx3Yb1sKGH26_CGi85kwg2UNAwgYjyLIoOZmFBkpFaYx6WfIO0JnD 9ZlXRVx9D4u9hopxCrzIAe5IRv2b_uJAmQMJTQbVhDVmM7kXvFiQOvduKC7TDdJX2Cspv1oX62ql jHVU9UQXyuogT6txPx7iy498GdRojvPOErMMu2Y5hBYF9FnTeQKU5Qyj5xJ0fdp3J3XXgfrse6_w J6f.QUBzlNlulbfCVWtJVnE66p2I8twkCMAaijKA- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 May 2019 17:28:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 17:28:17 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1193368817.3476079.1557768497857@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary Re: Premix MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3476078_600583733.1557768497855" References: <1193368817.3476079.1557768497857.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13583 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 13312 ------=_Part_3476078_600583733.1557768497855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oil that is flammable at high temperatures forms up into combustion product= s and glue and gum to stick side seals. So, use an oil that is still oil and nonflammable at high temperatures. Lik= e a synthetic 2 cycle oil.=C2=A0 I used to find free engines outside my sho= p. No starts because of no compression because of stuck side seals. Combustion products are not supposed to get past the side seals. Nor past t= he corner seals. Nor past the end of the side seals from too much wear. So,= the side seal is a combustion gas seal and an oil scraper. So any oil that gets past the side seals will be gathered up by the big rou= nd oil scrapers at the center of the rotor. Then pumped into the sump, addi= ng to the sump oil. On your next (or first) engine rebuild, Some tips: Use new seals everywhere. Use new seal springs everywhere. Make a jig to gr= ind the tips of side seals to fit the corner seals perfectly. I cut the sid= e out of a junk rotor so I can hold onto the seal. Reduce a grind stone to = just fit into the corner seal hole in the rotor. The stone can be mounted i= n a drill press. The stone will replicate the corner seal shape. Use a brok= en side seal sharpened on one end to clean out the side seal grooves of you= r used rotor. Use only solid corner seals (not the ones with the rubber plu= g. Much stronger. I fit the side seals to zero clearance against the new corner seals. After = you get close, do the end shape deal.Then break the ground ends edges) to .= 001"With new springs everywhere I fit the side seals tight enough that push= ing two seals and a corner seal down, the three will spring back up without= trouble. Then test the assembled seal package with a piece of Plexiglass t= o be sure they all pop back up after compression. All of the books say an a= ctual distance measurement for this fitment. However, as soon as the engine= starts the end of the side seal begins to wear a groove into the corner se= al. Note that each corner seal pushes one side seal around the circle. So n= ot much wear on one end of the side seal. Wear occurs on both ends during c= ompression and combustion. One set of side seals will last through 2 rebuil= ds with this system. You can turn up 9,500 RPM after a 2 hour break in run = at 2,000 RPM. More if you are unsure of your skills. Note that the oil scrapers have springs that are handed. Each spring can on= ly be used on the front of a rotor or the back (Flywheel end)=C2=A0 dependi= ng on the end of each spring with the round tip. Done right that spring kee= ps the seal from rotating backwards as the engine runs. If installed on the= wrong side, the spring will not develop enough pressure and will let the s= eal walk backwards and wear through the spring and start dropping chunks of= spring in the groove. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 5/13/2019 11:45:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes: Yep. I still make a little oil at 0.8 oz per gallon. I do tend to mix more = for long cross country for the reason Dave mention. I=E2=80=99m also not as= careful at the the 100LL pump and tend to empty the bottle if it=E2=80=99s= not enough to be usable at my next fuel stop. I use a fuel trailer at the = home airport.=C2=A0 Bobby=C2=A0 Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2019, at 10:30 AM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: I second what Jeff says.=C2=A0 I would never use it alone.=C2=A0 But every = time I have stopped believing in the 'Mystery'=C2=A0 I have ended up with a= side seal stuck in a bunch of 2-stroke residue. I recommend 1 oz per gallon of 2-stroke oil, with another 1/3 oz of MMO.=C2= =A0 If I am flying cross country, which means I am running lean of peak, I = increase that amount of the mixture a little.=C2=A0 I end up having to drai= n my sump oil frequently, which means frequent oil changes because the 2-st= roke oil has started to dilute the Mobil 1 in the sump. Perhaps if i started using synthetic 2-stroke oil (like Lynn suggests) I wo= uldn't have to worry about dilution.=C2=A0 Then again, that royal purple st= uff is very dearly priced. Dave Leonard=C2=A0 On Mon, May 13, 2019, 5:37 AM Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: Marvel Mystery oil is just that a "mystery" but don't mistake it for oil - = it is a cleaning agent.=C2=A0 No scientific proof but I'm pretty sure it is= basically Varsol (90%) masked by coloring and a perfume to disguise its tr= ue identity.=C2=A0 You can add a little to your gasoline and even oil if yo= u like but don't expect it to provide the lubrication needed that 2-cycle o= il gives you in a premix.=C2=A0 Lycomings have been eating Mystery oil for = years but its purpose is to help remove or prevent deposits on valves ... Jeff People use Marvel mystery oil? - Matt Boiteau -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyro= tary/List.html ------=_Part_3476078_600583733.1557768497855 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oil that is flammable at high temperatures forms up i= nto combustion products and glue and gum to stick side seals.
So, use an oil that is still oil and nonflammable at = high temperatures. Like a synthetic 2 cycle oil.  I used to find free = engines outside my shop. No starts because of no compression because of stu= ck side seals.

Combustion products are not supposed to get past the = side seals. Nor past the corner seals. Nor past the end of the side seals f= rom too much wear. So, the side seal is a combustion gas seal and an oil sc= raper.

So any oil that gets past the side seals will be gath= ered up by the big round oil scrapers at the center of the rotor. Then pump= ed into the sump, adding to the sump oil.

On your next (or first) engine rebuild, Some tips:

Use new seals everywhere. Use new seal springs everyw= here. Make a jig to grind the tips of side seals to fit the corner seals pe= rfectly. I cut the side out of a junk rotor so I can hold onto the seal. Re= duce a grind stone to just fit into the corner seal hole in the rotor. The = stone can be mounted in a drill press. The stone will replicate the corner = seal shape. Use a broken side seal sharpened on one end to clean out the si= de seal grooves of your used rotor. Use only solid corner seals (not the on= es with the rubber plug. Much stronger.

I fit the side seals to zero clearance against the ne= w corner seals. After you get close, do the end shape deal.
Then break the ground ends edges) to .001"
With new springs everywhere I fit the side seals tigh= t enough that pushing two seals and a corner seal down, the three will spri= ng back up without trouble. Then test the assembled seal package with a pie= ce of Plexiglass to be sure they all pop back up after compression. All of = the books say an actual distance measurement for this fitment. However, as = soon as the engine starts the end of the side seal begins to wear a groove = into the corner seal. Note that each corner seal pushes one side seal aroun= d the circle. So not much wear on one end of the side seal. Wear occurs on = both ends during compression and combustion. One set of side seals will las= t through 2 rebuilds with this system. You can turn up 9,500 RPM after a 2 = hour break in run at 2,000 RPM. More if you are unsure of your skills.
<= /span>

Note that the oil scrapers have springs that are hand= ed. Each spring can only be used on the front of a rotor or the back (Flywh= eel end)  depending on the end of each spring with the round tip. Done= right that spring keeps the seal from rotating backwards as the engine run= s. If installed on the wrong side, the spring will not develop enough press= ure and will let the seal walk backwards and wear through the spring and st= art dropping chunks of spring in the groove.

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 5= /13/2019 11:45:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net wri= tes:

Yep. I still make a little oil at 0.8 oz per gallon. I do tend to mix = more for long cross country for the reason Dave mention. I’m also not= as careful at the the 100LL pump and tend to empty the bottle if it’= s not enough to be usable at my next fuel stop. I use a fuel trailer at the= home airport. 

Bobby 

Sent from my iPhone=

On May 13, 2019, at 10:30 AM, David Leonard = wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I second what Jeff says.  I would never use it alone.  But e= very time I have stopped believing in the 'Mystery'  I have ended up w= ith a side seal stuck in a bunch of 2-stroke residue.

I recommend 1 oz per gallon of 2-stroke oil, with another 1/3 oz of MM= O.  If I am flying cross country, which means I am running lean of pea= k, I increase that amount of the mixture a little.  I end up having to= drain my sump oil frequently, which means frequent oil changes because the= 2-stroke oil has started to dilute the Mobil 1 in the sump.

Perhaps if i started using synthetic 2-stroke oil (like Lynn suggests)= I wouldn't have to worry about dilution.  Then again, that royal purp= le stuff is very dearly priced.

Dave Leonard 

On Mon, May 13, 2019, 5:= 37 AM Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Marvel Mystery oil is jus= t that a "mystery" but don't mistake it for oil - it is a cleaning agent.&n= bsp; No scientific proof but I'm pretty sure it is basically Varsol (90%) m= asked by coloring and a perfume to disguise its true identity.  You ca= n add a little to your gasoline and even oil if you like but don't expect i= t to provide the lubrication needed that 2-cycle oil gives you in a premix.=   Lycomings have been eating Mystery oil for years but its purpose is = to help remove or prevent deposits on valves ...
Jeff

People use = Marvel mystery oil?
- Matt Boiteau


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/= flyrotary/List.html
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