X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=JejCUnCV c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=0QA3QP3nRbaXYvsTZWxqNQ==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=JHgEbvZpAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=vtCrxz1CusBQRKT2zSQA:9 a=Er9GVNbuZQGe0hql:21 a=PQ4LO0VfDK3tmguD:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=QON2h5Ky_spYz1n0wy0A:9 a=2i8zNDXnKP2nBchx:21 a=hvXFtCFcNWJ6oYYm:21 a=EQt9bA4k9CHkUn4J:21 a=xnzgGCb9g37PWrLTCAHf:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qt1-f174.google.com ([209.85.160.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12543325 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 May 2019 18:42:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.174; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt1-f174.google.com with SMTP id d13so381353qth.5 for ; Wed, 08 May 2019 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mquXhK7K0Yq2882pf8XE2Z+aN+w3ihysOnSB8HA2wdY=; b=SkzYG5wZ0Mu/CI6sOMlkSKcXb32O37t87FBiKCsY5qgrqMIY16xha6lZCTI121nmYC DwOivClR9h1IGdB5lUfWgkSQD0lUZArYwMZw5esdrgIXoXmx4bDnvPaa0Y8xlRSkwoJH okLFnq/KEen/yRCvR8l51MvIsokgytBtYxBITLzIlFTzUtTxZjyWn8xOqyyvou+uCDQ3 e/hRMT90x18XZTPMu81ErXu9w9YG/4qDv/WaThvFwM+iDfOtkJHduDc6lBLePPJtrDlz hrD2HVK+13EetP745b39XMgNN76Jaz01+UjJ7CRs8wsCfBosEDz3rG0TOIZXDC6EYutq 0fwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mquXhK7K0Yq2882pf8XE2Z+aN+w3ihysOnSB8HA2wdY=; b=mu9ntpKIxZ7Ll9NqSMgS42Lk20ojKgGdp8zQsbEzM2yxOw6HU0z+GNDZDuCxn4N3g3 Qs+GF3dDXTFZccgI0QQgUPIRs6mXyIh9KC/WyX0lYq2er+3u+78uTAysbLrUYDp9W3v9 m/UtEfsKPkp08cQdQi7bdxKTeVUB++j9eX/WpDwIn/s5r9FdQlqwRbCoSYjyjF3SzN13 5Td4U6UeDy19oxGVZf1jUyjDfaZvEgGFfz6RESc2nwrAGmLtLh31C0G2JxFdc+74uojA UXKCRo9Su7v+gfCzLkGvB8EDIKkJowAyu8uS4D6CrqyZV/WMglkHZ7u2Uti1ml1E9Zti 2w5A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW9jw6Ks7uUlTmQt3z5CWlHwaU3L+BxvuUVFv40XVIZ79l138Ju wuW4fFIbdzVrUTFl7wItOmyf0zTQoWDS7VUTd98Zbm9N X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxZutts+tu09CzlTnvnPNNUtsH4/dG7R03BC0onZIwg8AlooCUm8+2nyA/BJDgbKDu+WFZko8FOcDkEigpF2yY= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:c60d:: with SMTP id v13mr665379qvi.22.1557355335205; Wed, 08 May 2019 15:42:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 15:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Venting the Reduction Drive To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008b4a740588680be4" --0000000000008b4a740588680be4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well said, Charlie. Here is Neil's page with diagrams: http://naa73x.wixsite.com/rotarpower/propeller-psru BTW, very nicely done Neil. Best I can tell it is a pressure fed bearing just like Tracys. Dave Leonard On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 3:35 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Matt, > > I've not followed Neil's version of the drive carefully; he may not be > using a sleeve bearing. But Tracy's drive *does* use one, under that oil > feed hole in the 'fat' part of the housing. Dave's telling you that if > there's a sleeve type bearing in there that's designed for pressure > feeding, lack of oil pressure is certain death, in short order. If Neil i= s > using a ball or roller bearing back there, that's a different game > entirely, and I'd want his input on whether it needs pressurized flow, bo= th > for lube and for cooling. > > On 5/8/2019 3:44 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote: > > Neil's. 3.17 ratio. > I've found the back gears push the oil to the front pretty well. > > - Matt Boiteau > > On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:13 David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Matt, is this one of Tracy Crooks drives? If so, it will absolutely fai= l >> in short order with no pressure feed to the main bearing. >> >> Dave Leonard. >> >> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:03 AM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> So far on the ground, static 2200 prop rpm for 30seconds, temps only go= t >>> to 135=C2=B0F. >>> >>> Haven't flown yet. Will advise in June. >>> >>> - Matt Boiteau >>> >>> On Wed, May 8, 2019, 00:09 Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Matt, >>>> So you are trying using self contained lube with no pressure feed >>>> from the engine and no drain...=E2=80=A6...Watch your temps......=E2= =80=A6=E2=80=A6.Let us know >>>> what happens...=E2=80=A6... >>>> >>>> Kelly Troyer >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 10:15 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've been experimenting on Neil's PSRU with sealing it up. Only addin= g >>>>> a breather vent on the rear housing. So far I've only done ground tes= ting, >>>>> but all seems well enough to fly with it soon enough. The Tygon house= in >>>>> the picture was only to see the oil flow, it's capped off now. I ran = gear >>>>> oil 70w-140 and it was way to thick and came out the breather vent, s= o went >>>>> back down to my normal engine oil 20w-50. Filled half full, but I thi= nk I >>>>> can go a little less, haven't tested the idle level yet. >>>>> >>>>> I have a temp sensor (1/3 down), and a digital level sensor (half way= ) >>>>> installed in the rear housing as well. >>>>> >>>>> - Matt Boiteau >>>>> >>>>> On 2019-05-07 12:32:26 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu < >>>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>>> If the original return line was not enlarged, the "vent" line simply >>>>> acted as an additional return line and my gearboxes operated complete= ly >>>>> filled with oil. >>>>> >>>>> Steve Boese >>>>> >>>>> > On May 7, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exe= rcise >>>>> caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sour= ces. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > Hi Steve, is the enlarging of the oil return necessary? >>>>> > I thought you first tried enlarging the return line expecting it to >>>>> improve draining, only to find no improvement until the vent line was >>>>> added. >>>>> > Jeff >>>>> > >>>>> > Jeff, >>>>> > At this point I have only 3 hr of flight time on the gearbox with >>>>> the modified drain and vent. I have not observed a significant effect= with >>>>> respect to power absorption or heat generation. >>>>> > >>>>> > Connecting the vent line to the foot of the rotor housing was >>>>> ineffective even though this location was above the oil level. Connec= ting >>>>> the vent line to the area of the oil filler opening at the top of the >>>>> center iron allowed the gearbox to drain as intended. >>>>> > >>>>> > The most troublesome part of the modification was enlarging the oil >>>>> return to 1/2" NPT in the rotor housing foot. >>>>> > >>>>> > Steve Boese >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> > Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > Virus-free= . > www.avast.com > > <#m_9088097933279413623_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --0000000000008b4a740588680be4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well said, Charlie.=C2=A0 Here is Neil= 9;s page with diagrams:

BTW,=C2=A0 very nicely done Neil.

=
Best I can tell it is a pressure fed bearing just like Tracys.

Dave Leonard

On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 3:35= PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmai= l.com <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Matt,

I've not followed Neil's version of the drive carefully; he m= ay not be using a sleeve bearing. But Tracy's drive *does* use one, under that oil feed hole in the 'fat' part of the housing. Da= ve's telling you that if there's a sleeve type bearing in there that&#= 39;s designed for pressure feeding, lack of oil pressure is certain death, in short order. If Neil is using a ball or roller bearing back there, that's a different game entirely, and I'd want hi= s input on whether it needs pressurized flow, both for lube and for cooling.

On 5/8/2019 3:44 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
Neil's. 3.17 ratio.
I've found the back gears push the oil to the front pretty well.

- Matt Boiteau

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 13:13 David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Matt, is this one of Tracy Crooks drives?=C2=A0= If so, it will absolutely fail in short order with no pressure feed to the main bearing.

Dave Leonard.

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 7:03 AM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
So far on the ground, static 2200 prop rpm for 30seconds, temps only got to 135=C2=B0F.

Haven't flown yet. Will advise in June.

- Matt Boiteau

On Wed, May 8, 2019, 00:09 Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Matt,
=C2=A0 So you are trying using self containe= d lube with no pressure feed from the engine and no drain...=E2=80=A6...Watch your temps......=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.Let us know what happens...=E2=80=A6...

Kelly Troyer=C2=A0

On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 10:15 PM Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:
I've been experimenting on Neil's PSRU with sealing it up. Only adding a breather vent on the rear housing. So far I've only done groun= d testing, but all seems well enough to fly with it soon enough. The Tygon house in the picture was only to see the oil flow, it's capped off now. I ran gear oil 70w-140 and it was way to thick and came out the breather vent, so went back down to my normal engine oil 20w-50. Filled half full, but I think I can go a little less, haven't tested the idle level yet.

I have a temp sensor (1/3 down), and a digital level sensor (half way) installed in the rear housing as well.

- Matt Boiteau

On 2019-05-07 12:32:26 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uw= yo.edu <flyrotary= @lancaironline.net> wrote:

If the original return line was not enlarged, the "vent" line simpl= y acted as an additional return line and my gearboxes operated completely filled with oil.

Steve Boese

> On May 7, 2019, at 9:41 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@d= atacast.com wrote:
>
> =E2=97=86 This message was sent from= a non-UWYO address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.
>
>
> Hi Steve, is the enlarging of the oil return necessary?
> I thought you first tried enlarging the return line expecting it to improve draining, only to find no improvement until the vent line was added.
> Jeff
>
> Jeff,
> At this point I have only 3 hr of flight time on the gearbox with the modified drain and vent. I have not observed a significant effect with respect to power absorption or heat generation.
>
> Connecting the vent line to the foot of the rotor housing was ineffective even though this location was above the oil level. Connecting the vent line to the area of the oil filler opening at the top of the center iron allowed the gearbox to drain as intended.
>
> The most troublesome part of the modification was enlarging the oil return to 1/2" NPT in the rotor housing foot.
>
> Steve Boese
>
>
> --
> Homepage: http://ww= w.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage: http://ww= w.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://ma= il.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com=
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