X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-yb0-f171.google.com ([209.85.213.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 9737914 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 May 2017 19:44:12 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 8so4217713ybw.1 for ; Tue, 09 May 2017 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=sdibXqo7c33UqaP0gBgIy83NR/JLMuFhiH18GHSED/I=; b=lCyEVNlIJx5qY+gPk8DibR8jHJoy4BHEHt+HB2IxaQdiRDPBEAn4Q03XotiaetMonG zuDJV0CFmNlTYWq/bi5qSxmuwYkqfPpBk3+8SQs+6xTqCyn/0Y2bljLG0Or6bDqh/V11 LxgcOF+VmVcs3/ri6FaZWGzyLG0dMXhmE58KHKFWzQ5VI1zZuWPaDELti0o4N5+MbY+6 gDKUDkj6IlM+LkxLMFONSV8DatZBwxtbt4TMlClIZFkTYHf7AEwc8p3A0g553nzZmF92 vYnWV9AD234wLRJs8P/d6Ag7G+tGTuecAGo7pr9whwszgqAPNuAv8/UAXb9vO+urdmqt yTCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=sdibXqo7c33UqaP0gBgIy83NR/JLMuFhiH18GHSED/I=; b=pWgOP3O9fyByD3LHdDpr3YKiFu7SJo54cvBssO2kdBv0fGgeeDmivLllbp9K1Fxdoj vLauf7nvZPQ+8Joa8VVbdk7OajaNnOojZuZ7l8+5IEjMoWZW2OYGjnG6A3u3vWkd7/bD 0HnalqqjyCBhipzngSIvbBAGUK+CMCR6RguL/rSs8IvA4qC+NjdUNj0LYjg4BLg9AzH7 ApkjHbmhtPJ9E5iXffASaVrQTGN8fscwM/S8iddXrcN2pB+1fkQrqdfXHKRbKnWTAClW 1YMdrGMPkGfA7w08LwXPFcu9Gyj6w3qe3/+lt5J1GlbtvJ8u+1kwnxm9uSieNyQe4/r6 lTUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcDaFRWNuXeRB+PVznvf71Q1AlH2+aCXz9/aPS2H4i7gGgW7XP1q Ziuw0LoSBBkAn3j3 X-Received: by 10.37.209.150 with SMTP id i144mr2555765ybg.121.1494373435427; Tue, 09 May 2017 16:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::1? ([2602:306:25fb:2509:959d:aa86:5408:2dd]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b204sm721013ywh.36.2017.05.09.16.43.53 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 09 May 2017 16:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: F/A and EGT data To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 18:46:21 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2A1A2ADBC36659C24C90737D" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 170509-4, 05/09/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2A1A2ADBC36659C24C90737D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You've probably already thought of this, but a quick & dirty is to swap them between rotors and re-fly the test. On 5/9/2017 6:39 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > > Thanks Alex. A flow test may be needed. Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 09, 2017 5:58 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: F/A and EGT data > > Bobby, if you decide to have your injectors cleaned and flow tested, > Matt Boiteau had good luck with www.Injector-rehab.com > , mine have just gone in a week ago for > the same treatment, > > Alex Molteno > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:23 PM, William Jepson > > wrote: > > Bobby, While being under boost does change the intake side a bit ports > and manifolds do have some effect. Exhaust systems have more effect. > Are you still running the belt driven supercharger? Or have you gone > turbo? > > Bill > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Bobby J. Hughes > > wrote: > > Bill / Jeff, > > In a normally aspirated engine I would agree. However under boost I > think it’s safer to match F/A for each rotor under the most demanding > conditions. For me that’s 38-40” MP and 7000 rpm. But I can’t explain > the inflight EGT changes just by twisting the mixture knob? I would > expect the EGT spread would remain almost the same. I’m suspecting one > of the injectors is not behaving properly. > > *MP* > > > > *RPM* > > > > *F/A- Combined* > > > > *F/A Rotor 1* > > > > *EGT Rotor 1* > > > > *F/A Rotor 2* > > > > *EGT Rotor 2* > > > > *EGT Spread* > > > > *Condition* > > *31.0* > > > > *5200* > > > > *13.4* > > > > > > *1524* > > > > > > *1587* > > > > *63* > > > > *Flight* > > *31.3* > > > > *5200* > > > > *15.7* > > > > > > *1543* > > > > > > *1558* > > > > *15* > > > > *Flight* > > *31.2* > > > > *5200* > > > > *13.2* > > > > > > *1525* > > > > > > *1592* > > > > *67* > > > > *Flight* > > MP and RPM with constant speed prop were steady for this test. Fuel > Map table address being used were stable. Some bouncing between two > adjacent addresses with similar programmed values. Slower airspeed at > 15.7 F/A but the constant speed prop maintains the target rpm. > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net > ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 09, 2017 1:11 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: F/A and EGT data > > Bobby, I agree with Jeff. Since there are ALWAYS minor variances in > the intake, porting, exhaust lengths, or even the actual bends of the > exhaust it is unlikely that you will remain synced up across the > range. I talked to Ross Farnham at SDSEFI and he commented that was > why he put tune on the fly ability for individual cylinders / rotors > into his EFI. > > Bill Jepson > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Jeff Whaley > > wrote: > > From memory, reading the EC2 Manual it states that rotor balancing > should be performed at your preferred cruise rpm as it will remain > balanced over a very narrow range. I'm sure you know: Static and > in-flight engine performance will not be the same, regardless if the > RPMs and MPs are matched. > Jeff > > From: Bobby J. Hughes > > Subject: F/A and EGT data > Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:12:07 -0500 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > I recently purchased a two channel portable wideband O2 system and > installed bungs and plugs on each exhaust runner. I also have a > downstream wideband that I have been using for several years. I was > able to spend a very productive hour ground tuning and adjusting Mode > 4 injector balance prior to my flight yesterday from Austin to Akron > OH. I'm not sure what to make of the F/A EGT spread data I collect > during yesterday's flight. > > During the ground tuning session I balanced rotor 1 to match rotor 2 > using F/A ratios for takeoff condition. This produced very close EGT > readings. However at my preferred cruise settings I'm seeing a large > EGT spread. I would expect a consistent EGT ratio change when > adjusting the mixture knob at a steady rpm / MP. This appears not to > be the case. What am I missing? > > Bobby Hughes > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for > the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. > Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that > we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original > message. Thank you. > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------2A1A2ADBC36659C24C90737D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
You've probably already thought of this, but a quick & dirty is to swap them between rotors and re-fly the test.

On 5/9/2017 6:39 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:

Thanks Alex. A flow test may be needed.   Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 5:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: F/A and EGT data

 

Bobby, if you decide to have your injectors cleaned and flow tested, Matt Boiteau had good luck with www.Injector-rehab.com, mine have just gone in a week ago for the same treatment,

 

Alex Molteno

 

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 5:23 PM, William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby, While being under boost does change the intake side a bit ports and manifolds do have some effect. Exhaust systems have more effect. Are you still running the belt driven supercharger? Or have you gone turbo?

Bill 

 

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bill / Jeff,

 

In a normally aspirated engine I would agree. However under boost I think it’s safer to match F/A for each rotor under the most demanding conditions.  For me that’s 38-40” MP and 7000 rpm. But I can’t explain the inflight EGT changes just by twisting the mixture knob? I would expect the EGT spread would remain almost the same. I’m suspecting one of the injectors is not behaving properly.

 

MP

RPM

F/A- Combined

F/A Rotor 1

EGT Rotor 1

F/A Rotor 2

EGT Rotor 2

EGT Spread

Condition

31.0

5200

13.4

 

1524

 

1587

63

Flight

31.3

5200

15.7

 

1543

 

1558

15

Flight

31.2

5200

13.2

 

1525

 

1592

67

Flight

 

MP and RPM with constant speed prop were steady for this test. Fuel Map table address being used were stable. Some bouncing between two adjacent addresses with similar programmed values. Slower airspeed at 15.7 F/A but the constant speed prop maintains the target rpm.

 

Bobby

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 1:11 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: F/A and EGT data

 

Bobby, I agree with Jeff. Since there are ALWAYS minor variances in the intake, porting, exhaust lengths, or even the actual bends of the exhaust it is unlikely that you will remain synced up across the range. I talked to Ross Farnham at SDSEFI and he commented that was why he put tune on the fly ability for individual cylinders / rotors into his EFI.

Bill Jepson

 

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:44 AM, Jeff Whaley <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

From memory, reading the EC2 Manual it states that rotor balancing should be performed at your preferred cruise rpm as it will remain balanced over a very narrow range. I'm sure you know: Static and in-flight engine performance will not be the same, regardless if the RPMs and MPs are matched.
Jeff

From:   Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject:        F/A and EGT data
Date:   Tue, 9 May 2017 10:12:07 -0500
To:     Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

I recently purchased a two channel  portable wideband O2 system and installed bungs and plugs on each exhaust runner. I also have a downstream wideband that I have been using for several years. I was able to spend a very productive hour ground tuning and adjusting Mode 4 injector balance prior to my flight yesterday from Austin to Akron OH. I'm not sure what to make of the F/A EGT spread data I collect during yesterday's flight.

During the ground tuning session I balanced rotor 1 to match rotor 2 using F/A ratios for takeoff condition. This produced very close EGT readings. However at my preferred cruise settings I'm seeing a large EGT spread. I would expect a consistent EGT ratio change when adjusting the mixture knob at a steady rpm / MP.  This appears not to be the case. What am I missing?

Bobby Hughes
This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

 

 



Virus-free. www.avast.com
--------------2A1A2ADBC36659C24C90737D--