X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Doug Lomheim" Received: from omr-m002e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.2] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 9735316 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 May 2017 01:27:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.2; envelope-from=dlomheim@aol.com Received: from mtaout-aak02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aak02.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.226]) by omr-m002e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 12429380008C for ; Tue, 9 May 2017 01:27:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.7] (x4db2acd4.dyn.telefonica.de [77.178.172.212]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-aak02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 2DA9338000086 for ; Tue, 9 May 2017 01:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_282E24E0-E120-4D35-AD7C-6925B393507C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Rutan "metal" Viginette w/13B Message-Id: <6660D189-3266-451E-B52A-B6DAFF05EECA@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 07:27:10 +0200 To: Rotary Motors in Aircraft X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1494307633; bh=xWAw9jdw5Duin6OmK3BmdidfDmkqojfBphZnXXZv+F0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=oKK59gtkcmHzTrECRTZDpbO7UiGgRg9BufMrdB93OfySzvxxcbMB+VeZPsc7uGEeN LbIlnBSpMCc3jadYKO1zWDRf2LpdZ2yrrwVw9cPhMDhiXG6Czyj/qeMEPHm0Y/CINd IewEkcCKIT5UDs1mWmgYLJ/OTMh5atEWrow+zXao= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b02e2591153303834 X-AOL-IP: 77.178.172.212 --Apple-Mail=_282E24E0-E120-4D35-AD7C-6925B393507C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I posted on VANS Air Force about putting a 13B in my 9A and got an = interesting response from =E2=80=9CF1R=E2=80=9D who was a test pilot for = =E2=80=9COly Olsen=E2=80=9D when the under powered aluminum version of = the Vari-Viggen (w/13B) almost killed him. =20 Do any of you "old timers=E2=80=9D remember if the last builder =E2=80=9CO= ly Olsen=E2=80=9D was ever on our list back in early 2000=E2=80=99s when = he was finishing up the installation? Sounds like his engine was only = putting out =E2=80=9Cstock" 2 rotor hp of 160-170, and that heavy a/c = needed a minimum of 225 or so=E2=80=A6 Doug =20 "http://stargazer2006.online.fr/deriv.../viggenite.htm = Here is a link with some of the BS and mystery. The photos however are real. =20 JR broke his back sliding over a rock pile when a fuel bockage forced he = and his wife into an off airport landing. Keith rebuilt the Viggenite from salvage. My forced Ldg was in late = 2003. Then it got sold to Oly after keith made it new a second time.=20 I am guessing about 2008 for the Chesterfield MO Incident. FAA report = said power loss for undetermined reasons. FAA report claimed the roll to = inverted was intentional. A second canard forum posting by a friend and witness read that it = stalled, then dropped a wing and riled inverted virtually instantly, = from the pitch up when power was lost.=E2=80=9D By the way, the only reason I cleaned up the gear is that the water temp = was pegged way above red line and the AC would not climb. So it was = either land it on a highway quickly, or clean up the gear. It did cool = down a bit and I did get it to 5000 feet. More than one of my friends = told me afterwards I should have thrown a match in it before I run away = from it. =20 Oly re designed the cooling and changed the prop. I know he was in = search of cooling and even a bit of climb performance, because all the = HP did not result in performance or speed. It was a dog. A sexy looking = dog, but a dangerous underperforming dog. I believe that Oly also changed the carb and intake system after he = bought it. IIRC it had dual carbs on the other side of the engine bay = when I flew it. =20 As for the dog statement... I used 4400 ft of a 4800 ft runway and I = just barely cleared a 4 ft barb wire fence at the end of the airport a = few hundred feet past the end of the runway. I had a good 15- 18 kts of = headwind. I should have aborted before half way, but if you hesitate just a = moment, it's too late. The Vig run strong enough but the owner never did a static thrust test.=20= An IO 360 200 HP will generate about 680 -700 Lbs static trust when = measured with a load cell / big inline fish scale. A healthy IO 540 will make almost 1000 lbs. I spent several months doing full power taxi runs. Nose wheel was easily = up in about 800 feet and accel. felt normal. Even in calm air with a run = both directions water temp issues did not present any concern.=20 However, on the for real TO run and flight it took crazy high air speed = to make it lift off the mains. I was about 190 lbs at the time so 30 lbs = heavier than the owner and I added about 20 gallons extra fuel for the = flight. =20 Bottom line is the 13B just did not have enough power for that wing and = weight. The numbers did not translate into adequate thrust. I was told that Keith had sold the Vig as salvage parts to somebody and = that is all I knew until I got searching on the I net a few years after = the final voyage with the tree.=20 I had lots of friends that tried to lead me to rational thought and away = from the Vig, without any of them saying"do not fly that machine" . The = old Varriviggen had 2 recent fatals previous to my flight in 2003, from = only partial loss of engine power with one of them a high time military = pilot. Dropped a main wing when he got slow trying to milk it back to = the airport. I should have run away, before I flew the vig. I did a = glider flight and had a back seat ride in a long eze before I flew. I = never imagined an engine out forced with stuck landing gear would happen = on my first flight in a non familiar airframe. The first landing attempt = was about 100 kts but as I got down into ground effect the nose pitched = up uncommanded and there was NO negative pitch control so the AC flew up = and up and I was shoving the stick forward into the instrument panel = shouting F**K, F**K, F**K over and over beating the **** out the stick = and panel. Just before it dropped a main wing(I think my TW time in = pitts and the Emeraude saved my ***) the nose finally mushed and dropped = I had time to say wow I get a second chance. This time I kept the nose = up and held it high AOA and slower, I eased into the field at about = 80-85 kts. It got into ground effect the second time but nose up about 2 = feet and everything went into slow motion. It seemed to fly, just = grazing the stubble field for an eternity. The saving grace was that the = nose wheel was down about 6 inches and when the cooling scoop on the = bottom acted like a tail hook, it went from 70 to zero in about 1/2 = second. It never even scratched the paint on the main wing. It did not = touch the prop. However all the deceleration and weight transfer onto = the nose wheel rippled the nose structure near the gear pivot tie in = points. =20 Thank God it not dig the nose in or flip. I hit my harness release and = canopy at the same time, jumped and ran as hard as I could not waiting = for gas fumes. No fuel rupture and I thanked the big guy for being = alive. F1R= --Apple-Mail=_282E24E0-E120-4D35-AD7C-6925B393507C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I posted on VANS = Air Force about putting a 13B in my 9A and got an interesting response = from =E2=80=9CF1R=E2=80=9D who was a test pilot for =E2=80=9COly= Olsen=E2=80=9D when the under powered aluminum version of = the Vari-Viggen (w/13B) almost killed him.  

Do any of you "old timers=E2=80=9D = remember if the last builder =E2=80=9COly Olsen=E2=80=9D was ever = on our list back in early 2000=E2=80=99s when he was finishing up the = installation?  Sounds like his engine was only putting = out =E2=80=9Cstock" 2 rotor hp of 160-170, and that heavy a/c = needed a minimum of 225 or so=E2=80=A6

Doug =   




"http://stargazer2006.online.fr/deriv.../viggenite.htm

Here is a link with = some of the BS and mystery.

The photos however are real.  

JR broke his back = sliding over a rock pile when a fuel bockage forced he and his wife into = an off airport landing.

Keith rebuilt the Viggenite from salvage. My forced Ldg was = in late 2003. Then it got sold to Oly after keith made it new a second = time. 

I am guessing about 2008 for the Chesterfield MO Incident. = FAA report said power loss for undetermined reasons. FAA report claimed = the roll to inverted was intentional.

A second canard forum = posting by a friend and witness read that it stalled, then dropped a = wing and riled inverted virtually instantly, from the pitch up when = power was lost.=E2=80=9D



By the way, the only reason I cleaned up the gear is that the = water temp was pegged way above red line and the AC would not climb. So = it was either land it on a highway quickly, or clean up the gear. It did = cool down a bit and I did get it to 5000 feet. More than one of my = friends told me afterwards I should have thrown a match in it before I = run away from it.  

Oly re designed the cooling and changed the prop. I know he = was in search of cooling and even a bit of climb performance, because = all the HP did not result in performance or speed. It was a dog. A sexy = looking dog, but a dangerous underperforming dog.

I believe that Oly also changed the carb and intake system = after he bought it.  IIRC it had dual carbs on the other side of the engine bay = when I flew it.  

As for the dog statement... I used 4400 ft of a 4800 ft = runway and I just barely cleared a 4 ft barb wire fence at the end of = the airport a few hundred feet past the end of the runway. I had a good = 15- 18 kts of headwind.

I should have aborted before half way, but if you hesitate = just a moment, it's too late.

The Vig run strong enough but the owner never did a static = thrust test. 

An IO 360 200 HP will generate about 680 -700 Lbs static = trust when measured with a load cell / big inline fish scale.

A healthy IO 540 will = make almost 1000 lbs.

I spent several months doing full power taxi runs. Nose wheel = was easily up in about 800 feet and accel. felt normal. Even in calm air = with a run both directions water temp issues did not present any = concern. 

However, on the for real TO run and flight it took crazy high = air speed to make it lift off the mains. I was about 190 lbs at the time = so 30 lbs heavier than the owner and I added about 20 gallons extra fuel = for the flight.  

Bottom line is the 13B just did not have enough power for = that wing and weight. The numbers did not translate into adequate = thrust.

I was told that Keith = had sold the Vig as salvage parts to somebody and that is all I knew = until I got searching on the I net a few years after the final voyage = with the tree. 

I had lots of friends that tried to lead me to rational = thought and away from the Vig, without any of them saying"do not fly = that machine" . The old Varriviggen had 2 recent fatals previous to my = flight in 2003, from only partial loss of engine power with one of them = a high time military pilot. Dropped a main wing when he got slow trying = to milk it back to the airport. I should have run away, before I flew = the vig. I did a glider flight and had a back seat ride in a long eze = before I flew. I never imagined an engine out forced with stuck landing = gear would happen on my first flight in a non familiar airframe. The = first landing attempt was about 100 kts but as I got down into ground = effect the nose pitched up uncommanded and there was NO negative pitch = control so the AC flew up and up and I was shoving the stick forward = into the instrument panel shouting F**K, F**K, F**K over and over = beating the **** out the stick and panel. Just before it dropped a main = wing(I think my TW time in pitts and the Emeraude saved my ***) the nose = finally mushed and dropped I had time to say wow I get a second chance. = This time I kept the nose up and held it high AOA and slower, I eased = into the field at about 80-85 kts. It got into ground effect the second = time but nose up about 2 feet and everything went into slow motion. It = seemed to fly, just grazing the stubble field for an eternity. The = saving grace was that the nose wheel was down about 6 inches and when = the cooling scoop on the bottom acted like a tail hook, it went from 70 = to zero in about 1/2 second. It never even scratched the paint on the = main wing. It did not touch the prop. However all the deceleration and = weight transfer onto the nose wheel rippled the nose structure near the = gear pivot tie in points.  

Thank God it not dig the nose in or flip. I hit my harness = release and canopy at the same time, jumped and ran as hard as I could = not waiting for gas fumes. No fuel rupture and I thanked the big guy for = being alive.   F1R
= --Apple-Mail=_282E24E0-E120-4D35-AD7C-6925B393507C--