X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm21-vm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.217.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9387295 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 20 Jan 2017 09:07:55 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.217.55; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1484921258; bh=L1349dhh3Lps6HbkUQT7W5HxKvFRY2UV/+ajKOaNgio=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=1CnbMbAh57HkrcXjT1eMfoA5OFrQ9QG1ipP7xfRDvIuYxKfj88ihM9uY417qEZthIapf5hMj8/5904DjMNbmXZEK6+NY1g5NlDIyPq3VUN3nItfWwOqTncZxAFS0q7ooBuOx+O6SJs9xQiMgrkMwpRvQffcdXxYn5oSu7CM4GeU= Received: from [98.137.12.61] by nm21.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2017 14:07:38 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.236] by tm6.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2017 14:07:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1044.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 Jan 2017 14:07:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 377495.79975.bm@omp1044.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: 0TVDY8UVM1nK3pvUpXzF2hF2hYTpbqcsiRkO.saKjR7ilPpfkrP9wvA5p4JCt2. Vw0.pKCOlDwqBd75.oIJAHZdM7aTyItcoV1EFPTxzkK_uZ949FIX7QQKscUVSOna3g2WnGZlvxs0 9bFsr.k_Hs18REW8w3mjlWp5BrFNRcAKbNzJItq2rz5ungoKkxqEwONRw9qyFbGU840KyiBqk8QH J2gV6Wgib08naZVPIOezanBGLV7liAfubk0fQwMfbYL.Cp2yHJ.1Cyhc5od0HjBiwa2LHNxq6_tk xRCbpALg0X4wA6Qzjoafzws.E3y2OGBCbcqKWFFj.uIAHYw9skDzdTWysC8IBX_JzPKXvKXAM5p2 MPScoqQjqnuvRauD7W.h4Pv9ni8kfGZldOdyUxzp.r.RcUGxlv49g9j2NoZcmhkEP_CysYvgxIpq gN6Qgsq0Yq8tnu3hHDInGLzp37HIyVXeSqgSmkt_nDCWtjBmDLPYehprBcYnRfMiHTV5J8PXntbG vdvOtqAGv6KEGK7H2jM678x8jA9w- Received: from jws300016.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Jan 2017 14:07:37 +0000; 1484921257.993 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2017 14:07:37 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <1779313587.654704.1484921257460@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] exhaust wraps and blankets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_654703_361662312.1484921257458" Content-Length: 8650 ------=_Part_654703_361662312.1484921257458 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My problem with the wrap is that it makes inspection somewhere between diff= icult and impossible. =C2=A0I opted for wrapping the muffler in a .025 stai= nless shroud that went all the way to the air exit, =C2=A0and ducting airfl= ow through it. =C2=A0Sort of a muffler over the muffler. =C2=A0It'd be heav= y, but the shroud could have been lined on the inside with blanket material= for more heat isolation. =20 On Friday, January 20, 2017 1:48 AM, Todd Bartrim wrote: =20 So I'm interested to hear about thoughts on exhaust wraps? I know that som= e people like them and others don't. Also some header manufactures don't li= ke them. But the fact is that we have one heck of a lot of radiant heat und= er the cowl. Heat shields help some but I really just want to try to keep m= ost of the heat going down the exhaust pipe. I know ceramic coating on the = inside of the pipe is the best solution, but once a pipe is no longer new i= t becomes more difficult to apply and hope for it to stay. On my first ever= engine build I had my rotors ceramic coated as that was supposed to reduce= oil heating, but after I had a little detonation incident I found during t= he rebuild that much of the ceramic had come off due to the shock of detona= tion. In my mind, I don't feel that ceramic coating the outside of the pipe= is any better than wrapping them as the heat is still absorbed by the meta= l but unable to radiate out.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But the biggest argument against c= eramic coating is that once it's done, you can't modify your pipe (welding = etc.) without having it redone again. A good example of this just happened = as I'd already had my exhaust completed some months ago, not expecting that= it would change again... But then somebody on this list started saying how= great his PLX wideband sensor was, blah, blah, blah, and suddenly I'm out = a couple of hundred bucks and having to redo my exhaust because it's recomm= ended that the sensor be located at an 15 degree angle, no less than 36" do= wnstream from a turbo, while my old narrow band sensor was only 14" downstr= eam. So rather than leaving the old sensor in place I decided to cut it off= along with another (long ago) incorrectly placed EGT port and weld a patch= over it, then install a new O2 bung downstream. Pretty simple to unwrap, w= eld and re-wrap.So as far as wraps go... lets hear it. Good, bad or ugly.= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Next is blankets. I have the original mazda metal turbo s= hroud in place but then I bought a large turbo blanket to fit over that. Th= e exhaust manifold that the turbo bolts to also has a stck Mazda metal shei= ld but I made one to fit over that as I feel these 2 items probably account= for the largest source of under-cowl heat and since the oli cooler is dire= ctly below that, I want to eliminate that source of radiant heat transfer. = I made this cover using 2 different styles of welding blanket sewed togethe= r like a quilt. The ball joint in my exhaust pipe, I decided to also cover = with a blanket like this rather than wrapping it, so I made it into a sleev= e that slides over the joint. Finally we get down to the muffler which is l= ocated inside a housing (more on that in a another post), due to it's locat= ion inside a housing I decided to put a quilted blanket sleeve over that on= e too. Pics of all this and more at this link. https://goo.gl/photos/NvD5YH4jwbktESi88 Todd Bartrim C-FSTBRV9 13Bturbo =20 ------=_Part_654703_361662312.1484921257458 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My problem with the wr= ap is that it makes inspection somewhere between difficult and impossible. =  I opted for wrapping the muffler in a .025 stainless shroud that went= all the way to the air exit,  and ducting airflow through it.  S= ort of a muffler over the muffler.  It'd be heavy, but the shroud coul= d have been lined on the inside with blanket material for more heat isolati= on.

<= /span>


On Friday, January 20, 2017 1:48 AM, Todd Bar= trim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


=
<= div>So I'm interested to hear about thoughts on exhaust wraps? I know that = some people like them and others don't. Also some header manufactures don't= like them. But the fact is that we have one heck of a lot of radiant heat = under the cowl. Heat shields help some but I really just want to try to kee= p most of the heat going down the exhaust pipe. I know ceramic coating on t= he inside of the pipe is the best solution, but once a pipe is no longer ne= w it becomes more difficult to apply and hope for it to stay. On my first e= ver engine build I had my rotors ceramic coated as that was supposed to red= uce oil heating, but after I had a little detonation incident I found durin= g the rebuild that much of the ceramic had come off due to the shock of det= onation. In my mind, I don't feel that ceramic coating the outside of the p= ipe is any better than wrapping them as the heat is still absorbed by the m= etal but unable to radiate out.
   But the biggest argu= ment against ceramic coating is that once it's done, you can't modify your = pipe (welding etc.) without having it redone again. A good example of this = just happened as I'd already had my exhaust completed some months ago, not = expecting that it would change again... But then somebody on this list star= ted saying how great his PLX wideband sensor was, blah, blah, blah, and sud= denly I'm out a couple of hundred bucks and having to redo my exhaust becau= se it's recommended that the sensor be located at an 15 degree angle, no le= ss than 36" downstream from a turbo, while my old narrow band sensor was on= ly 14" downstream. So rather than leaving the old sensor in place I decided= to cut it off along with another (long ago) incorrectly placed EGT port an= d weld a patch over it, then install a new O2 bung downstream. Pretty simpl= e to unwrap, weld and re-wrap.
So as far as wraps go... lets hear= it. Good, bad or ugly.
  
 Next is blan= kets. I have the original mazda metal turbo shroud in place but then I boug= ht a large turbo blanket to fit over that. The exhaust manifold that the tu= rbo bolts to also has a stck Mazda metal sheild but I made one to fit over = that as I feel these 2 items probably account for the largest source of und= er-cowl heat and since the oli cooler is directly below that, I want to eli= minate that source of radiant heat transfer. I made this cover using 2 diff= erent styles of welding blanket sewed together like a quilt. The ball joint= in my exhaust pipe, I decided to also cover with a blanket like this rathe= r than wrapping it, so I made it into a sleeve that slides over the joint. = Finally we get down to the muffler which is located inside a housing (more = on that in a another post), due to it's location inside a housing I decided= to put a quilted blanket sleeve over that one too.

Pics of all this and more at this link.


Todd Ba= rtrim

C-FSTB
RV9 13Bturbo


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