X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Nigel Baker" Received: from mail-pf0-f180.google.com ([209.85.192.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9369024 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 07:58:58 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.180; envelope-from=nigel@limbachaustralia.com Received: by mail-pf0-f180.google.com with SMTP id e4so3271401pfg.1 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 04:58:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=limbachaustralia-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=9T4ptHJTbXo3l8QiHO7ByXH9xh0C+m6kvc3FcdWXgm4=; b=Y+Kd8Vmo6Tj/1vooLC5L1edXdkzVRmoKq/5yqKseiEph+zFCNoxhBdLxsYCoB4sFuH 2sjwAX3jQeN1EWtEKhwvcqmtzwh6vtLfuKHgKrBN9SAYWM43v+0lP0HnqCVM1t4c9tsW 1Z5xga7/VeH0r/X9oqIGky/Z1dAMhTksKDXTJiSSrVGZAAc5aVHuv7H70KvhE7/mmiIO TlcowMiWS5zBLKj9JU8W4ipGheUHlrOMPBEPMjuayNADjXeoPnLWq1uQ3CNlipBUXxbi k8gDjbr9N+BRve3VQaOzqCF6/WV+79qUGSvlRqA+oCRybvi2ZskT0SjY/ir7L67hpAWN 8rJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=9T4ptHJTbXo3l8QiHO7ByXH9xh0C+m6kvc3FcdWXgm4=; b=ZgsSukODkCAQwaxnljALVo4UI4UEswenNTvEHf0Hz+M3hAliD2DEdln0dWAVYusFpu AMThhRi31oPx+WAmGYNtelPZrqB5GbemxcuHLeJ6sDqULSwIFiUOQIBw/xJDfj3RFqpV iQdYnWG2Vb06EDjZjTjlq4kfQ8awqPR2vsxyixfSHm1UgNu6DEZWgFvPjRM9/iSm5cfW 3ANSTWYrMVShCBPdGY6/WiBiz8o5uODjXPkbcseCRBJIJk11Xatav3VOgg8BeHFCXVmV oUtsY3lbLjkUgExPncbLGX9gqNwW9itmTcawm+LIVZMP/2h5t8Od9ztWQb1K7i9hekuU YfLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIwpVeCvqzqshkhiTKjyyAHMkDokePhBka3K4n7dHDGUmzaB0OXmllcbZV6SS3cew== X-Received: by 10.84.218.76 with SMTP id f12mr36614528plm.146.1484398721179; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 04:58:41 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from HeatherAndNigel (bakerh5.lnk.telstra.net. [110.142.123.166]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y6sm35612201pge.16.2017.01.14.04.58.38 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 14 Jan 2017 04:58:40 -0800 (PST) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the same. Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 23:28:37 +1030 Message-ID: <000001d26e65$ee232a80$ca697f80$@limbachaustralia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D26EBD.F0B984D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQLDwDhQxdwnaFqv1UCu0b2ri+TlfJ9VQXAQ Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D26EBD.F0B984D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=E2=80=99ll answer several mails in one. See links below. The spacing of the supports for the track were important and = fabricating that in combination with the 50 X 50RHS section with 100mm = centroids between allowed me to have spans of 3mts. The travelling = gantry used a heavier RHS being 50 X 75 and deeper centroids. The Eltrak = was also strengthened in tensile with 3X 50 flat bar both sides welded = to the Eltrak mounts to get the span to 5.8 mts. It is light weight but does the job. =20 =20 http://www.vaterhardware.com/ =20 http://www.vaterhardware.com/eltrak-sliding-doors-systems.html =20 http://www.mightym.com.au/sd-images/10340192 =20 Cheers. Nige. =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the same. =20 Nice. Got a closer image of the trusses & track? Most garage door track = here in the USA is basically C channel (more of a notched 0) that's = typically supported only on the ends. =20 Thanks, =20 Charlie=20 =20 On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 3:08 AM, Nigel Baker = > = wrote: When I built my workshop I knew I would need to lift stuff around and = I=E2=80=99m not getting any younger and like to be self-sufficient. So I guess you mean something like attached. I designed it for 250 KG which is plenty for my activities. I used 250KG garage door track with good support for the spans. The travelling beam spans 5.8 mts. The electric hoist (250KG) was AUD$104.00 including postage. All up I spent about AUD$600.00 building it 4 years ago so not that = expensive. Cheers. Nige. =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 10:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] What I'd do differently... or the same. =20 Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing! =20 I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, = but on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 = years from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building = (not a quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to = first flight, then learning to fly. It was all great fun at home in my shop where I could work on it = every spare minute. There was many very late nights where the creativity = was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up in the middle = of the night with a great idea and head to the shop. Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working on = it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it was = hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I started = regretting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I = tried to deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it all. By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really = interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought the land = across the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to = raise and a thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to get = interested again.=20 Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but from = my reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many projects = get abandoned at this point. =20 So from that, what would I do differently? Hard to be sure since I = didn't have the flight experience to make some different choices, but = even an extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace wouldn't = have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have time to do it right = the first time, then when are you going to find time to do it the second = time, is even harder when you are no longer in your well equipped shop = while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workmanship is = bad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our design = choices are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would = rather do an almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my = shop than almost anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, = but when it's not at home I just want to fly it. Previously I would cling to questionable half-baked ideas because of = the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's not to say that = half-baked ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move on = and try something else regardless of time and money investment if I = don't feel good about something. So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are = certain that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the = work involved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and = convenient work space. And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at home, you = can disregard this advice. I could fill several more posts about more specific items that I'd do = differently but this was really the big picture and once again it may = seem obvious to many but that has been my experience. Todd Bartrim RV9 13Bturbo =20 Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in building this = plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter. Ernest Christley 7:35 AM (7 hours ago) =20 =20 =20 to Rotary =20 George started us on a good topic. Building an airplane is an expensive = and labor intensive process. I've made many decisions where I didn't = really like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to = change it even less. Those things don't tend to get as much coverage in = discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real = lesson in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done = differently. =20 This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently" =20 Another good one would be "What I'd do again" -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D26EBD.F0B984D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I=E2=80=99ll answer several mails in = one.

See links below.

The spacing of the supports for the track = were important and=C2=A0 fabricating that in combination with the 50 X = 50RHS section with 100mm centroids between allowed me to have spans of = 3mts. The travelling gantry used a heavier RHS being 50 X 75 and deeper = centroids. The Eltrak was also strengthened in tensile with 3X 50 flat = bar both sides welded to the Eltrak mounts to get the span to 5.8 = mts.

It is light weight but does the = job.

 

 

http://www.vaterhardware.com/

 

h= ttp://www.vaterhardware.com/eltrak-sliding-doors-systems.html

 

http://www.mightym.= com.au/sd-images/10340192

 

Cheers.

Nige.

 

 

 

 

From:<= /b> Rotary = motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: = Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:28 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the = same.

 

Nice. = Got a closer image of the trusses & track? Most garage door track = here in the USA is basically C channel (more of a notched 0) =  that's typically supported only on the ends.

 

Thanks,

 

Charlie 

 

On Fri, = Jan 13, 2017 at 3:08 AM, Nigel Baker <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

When I built my workshop I knew I would need to lift stuff around and = I=E2=80=99m not getting any younger and like to be = self-sufficient.

So I guess you mean something like attached.

I designed it for 250 KG which is plenty for my = activities.

I used 250KG garage door track with good support for the = spans.

The travelling beam spans 5.8 mts.

The electric hoist (250KG) was AUD$104.00 including = postage.

All up I spent about AUD$600.00 building it 4 years ago so not that = expensive.

Cheers.

Nige.

 

 

From:<= /b> Rotary = motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: = Friday, January 6, 2017 10:53 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] What I'd do differently... or the = same.

 <= /o:p>

Yeah, this = is a good topic because of that damn hindsight = thing!

 <= /o:p>

I already = listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, but on = another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years = from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a = quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first = flight, then learning to fly.

  =  It was all great fun at home in my shop where I could work on it = every spare minute. There was many very late nights where the creativity = was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up in the middle = of the night with a great idea and head to the = shop.

  =  Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working = on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it = was hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I started = regretting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I = tried to deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it = all.

  =   By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really = interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought the land = across the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to = raise and a thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to get = interested again. 

  =  Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but = from my reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many = projects get abandoned at this point.

  =

 So = from that, what would I do differently? Hard to be sure since I didn't = have the flight experience to make some different choices, but even an = extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace wouldn't have hurt. = That old saying about if you don't have time to do it right the first = time, then when are you going to find time to do it the second time, is = even harder when you are no longer in your well equipped shop while = doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workmanship is bad, when = I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our design choices are = constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would rather do an = almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop than almost = anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when it's = not at home I just want to fly it.

  =  Previously I would cling to questionable half-baked ideas because = of the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's not to say that = half-baked ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move on = and try something else regardless of time and money investment if I = don't feel good about something.

  =  So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and = are certain that it would improve performance but don't want to to do = the work involved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and = convenient work space.

  =  And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at home, = you can disregard this advice.

I could = fill several more posts about more specific items that I'd do = differently but this was really the big picture and once again it may = seem obvious to many but that has been my = experience.


Todd = Bartrim

RV9 = 13Bturbo

 <= /o:p>

Ps. I often = get asked about how many hours are involved in building this plane. I = just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't = matter.

Ernest = Christley

7:35 AM (7 hours = ago)

<= /p>

<= /p>

<= /p>

to Rotary

<= /p>

George started = us on a good topic.  Building an airplane is an expensive and labor = intensive process.  I've made many decisions where I didn't really = like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to change = it even less.  Those things don't tend to get as much coverage in = discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real = lesson in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done = differently.

 

This thread = could be renamed "What I'd done = differently"

 

Another good = one would be "What I'd do = again"


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and = UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 

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