X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm4-vm4.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.218.163] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9345942 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 16:22:04 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.218.163; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1483737705; bh=HCqM3B873ZA1odeIUUnHWx+bMi10PVMDCSe+vSivZFs=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=hgKvk1LNS1W05HZRcyCRsN1ZwVVWhOGbmepH+UY/zTKAnyMQyQpVzQPhw2B94sE0TGDIbu/+SQgr9o1mwZFN5xdU8yRlAo7OcqWnhItbhvR69H8vWn6NIcDYOWNOyAMai/F474dexmLd5MUoGykIGrkVYa0O1xX57q95b7hDPl8= Received: from [98.137.12.55] by nm4.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 21:21:45 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.235] by tm15.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 21:21:45 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1043.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 21:21:45 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 352544.35140.bm@omp1043.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: ybMTVSEVM1mKpo9Cdhh2o.TvzRbsdzqTMN3wey2yCx5nVQ76CGkC28NDT3p9HkU ZJ9KZpVykKfoa6Er0sW5trPiT.MQTIoXCoopkGRJX7dOURdBp2R8QU5zo2EY2GtpqOI1X_hn2_Wa CTZNx9rZs4uNPNcEOifhHyo6lLjJktzoXtsOTl8JaFKE9VhR7Ea4TCBCJUXU_vRyLQbKGdLNIpDK 8iwPe6QQ5YkukjVAXlvO4Pm8nQ.oD28Bg8Cy_C25iGm.Wm2QomrsVAtB2rij7H5O0FfInFOfvhru cfFswaZuH8gfI4Ncb6TVHW3wBY9BX8YqM7eMKe3JRWdIsVniH_1dUklPystssHAA1sW2MRZZd9CY n.SBoM4PjuI8Y2CS3TSVEfJHNL5R.GKQ_FsYATvcgzQhQ5RM3.tDNF1XOSsG950VS7gZv_pB58vR wvx_lvZOx5c18XZVqslREoR4iOBNjTEasVlYwXLinb7l9isTo2RjhRrtNx3YmGRaDoIG3mOcUVt_ Yk9HPNsTSlPwvergdfktwWAcNlQ-- Received: from jws300029.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws140.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 21:21:44 +0000; 1483737704.898 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 21:21:44 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <433140553.2117538.1483737704670@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the same. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2117537_1530274846.1483737704665" Content-Length: 20762 ------=_Part_2117537_1530274846.1483737704665 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Before I pay $1K for that, I'd hit my uncle up for some scrap I-beams and t= hen practice my welding. =C2=A0:-) harbor Freight/ northern tool/ grainger/ wherever for some wheels, and a ra= chet crank.=20 On Friday, January 6, 2017 2:27 PM, James R. Osborn wrote: =20 Can NOT lift a typical car that is=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=94 James On Jan 6, 2017, at 11:26 AM, James R. Osborn wrote: I love the crane idea. =C2=A0 However, installing an XY crane might be a bi= t pricey. =C2=A0I did a quick search and found this beast. =C2=A0Seems reas= onably priced and I think would serve the same purpose. =C2=A0Can lift a ty= pical car with this thing, but with 1 ton capacity, the FWF package ought t= o be doable for all our experimental installations: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/hoists-cranes/cranes-ga= ntry/steel-gantry-crane-10-fixed-height-2000-lb-capacity-1?infoParam.campai= gnId=3DT9F&gclid=3DCOavx_WYrtECFQ9EfgodkXsHcw =E2=80=94 Jamesrxcited@gmail.com510-377-4514 On Jan 5, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Todd Bartrim wrot= e: Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing! I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, bu= t on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years f= rom knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a quic= kbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first flight, = then learning to fly.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It was all great fun at home in my shop w= here I could work on it every spare minute. There was many very late nights= where the creativity was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wak= e up in the middle of the night with a great idea and head to the shop.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working = on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it was = hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I started regretting d= oing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I tried to deny th= is to myself and stay excited and positive about it all.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 By th= e time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really interested in de= aling with it. And since we had just bought the land across the road, I had= a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to raise and a thousand other d= istractions, so that it took till now to get interested again.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but from m= y reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many projects get= abandoned at this point.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0So from that, what would I do di= fferently? Hard to be sure since I didn't have the flight experience to mak= e some different choices, but even an extra year in the shop going at a lit= tle slower pace wouldn't have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have= time to do it right the first time, then when are you going to find time t= o do it the second time, is even harder when you are no longer in your well= equipped shop while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workma= nship is bad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our de= sign choices are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would ra= ther do an almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop tha= n almost anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when i= t's not at home I just want to fly it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Previously I would cling= to questionable half-baked ideas because of the time and money that I'd in= vested in it. That's not to say that half-baked ideas are all bad, but now = I'll be far more likely to move on and try something else regardless of tim= e and money investment if I don't feel good about something.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So= when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are certain= that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the work involve= d, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenient work spac= e.=C2=A0 =C2=A0And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at = home, you can disregard this advice.I could fill several more posts about m= ore specific items that I'd do differently but this was really the big pict= ure and once again it may seem obvious to many but that has been my experie= nce. Todd BartrimRV9 13Bturbo Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in building this pl= ane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter. |=20 |=20 Ernest Christley | | 7:35 AM (7 hours ago) | | | |=20 | to=C2=A0Rotary | | George started us on a good topic.=C2=A0 Building an airplane is an expensi= ve and labor intensive process.=C2=A0 I've made many decisions where I didn= 't really like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to= change it even less.=C2=A0 Those things don't tend to get as much coverage= in discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real less= on in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done differently= . This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently" Another good one would be "What I'd do again" =20 ------=_Part_2117537_1530274846.1483737704665 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Before I pay $1K for that, I'd hit my uncle up for some scrap I-beams and = then practice my welding.  :-)

harbor Freight/ northern tool/ grainger/ wherever for some wheel= s, and a rachet crank.


On Friday, January 6, 2017 2:= 27 PM, James R. Osborn <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


=
Can NOT lift a typical car that is=E2=80=A6

=E2=80=94 = James

<= /div>

On Jan 6, 2017, at 11:26 AM, James R. = Osborn <rxcit= ed@gmail.com> wrote:

I love the crane idea.   However, installing= an XY crane might be a bit pricey.  I did a quick search and found th= is beast.  Seems reasonably priced and I think would serve the same pu= rpose.  Can lift a typical car with this thing, but with 1 ton capacit= y, the FWF package ought to be doable for all our experimental installation= s:

http://www= .globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/hoists-cranes/cranes-gantry/steel= -gantry-crane-10-fixed-height-2000-lb-capacity-1?infoParam.campaignId=3DT9F= &gclid=3DCOavx_WYrtECFQ9EfgodkXsHcw

=E2=80=94 James
rxci= ted@gmail.com
510-377-4514





On Jan 5, 20= 17, at 4:23 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:

Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing!=

I already listed the one thing about the overhead cr= ane or engine hoist, but on another more practical note. I got my airplane = in the air in 3 years from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a ki= t, building (not a quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engin= e FWF to first flight, then learning to fly.
   It was all great fun at home in my shop where I could work= on it every spare minute. There was many very late nights where the creati= vity was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up in the middl= e of the night with a great idea and head to the shop.
   Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport.= I hated working on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons= why, but it was hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I sta= rted regretting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I= tried to deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it all.
    By the time that I took it h= ome 2 years later, I was not really interested in dealing with it. And sinc= e we had just bought the land across the road, I had a new shop to build, b= arns to build, a kid to raise and a thousand other distractions, so that it= took till now to get interested again. 
   Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it= , but from my reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many = projects get abandoned at this point.
&nb= sp; 
 So from that, what would = I do differently? Hard to be sure since I didn't have the flight experience= to make some different choices, but even an extra year in the shop going a= t a little slower pace wouldn't have hurt. That old saying about if you don= 't have time to do it right the first time, then when are you going to find= time to do it the second time, is even harder when you are no longer in yo= ur well equipped shop while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the= workmanship is bad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of= our design choices are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I w= ould rather do an almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my s= hop than almost anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but= when it's not at home I just want to fly it.
   Previously I would cling to questionable half-baked ideas= because of the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's not to say t= hat half-baked ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move o= n and try something else regardless of time and money investment if I don't= feel good about something.
   = So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are certa= in that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the work invol= ved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenient work sp= ace.
   And all you lucky SOB's= that have an airstrip and hangar at home, you can disregard this advice.
I could fill several more posts about more= specific items that I'd do differently but this was really the big picture= and once again it may seem obvious to many but that has been my experience= .

Todd Bartrim
RV9 13Bturbo

Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved= in building this plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It does= n't matter.
<= /table>

Ernest Christley

7:35 AM (7 hours ago)
3D""
3D""
3D""
to Rotary
3D""
George started us on a good topic.=   Building an airplane is an expensive and labor intensive process.&nb= sp; I've made many decisions where I didn't really like something, but like= d the prospect of the time and expense to change it even less.  Those = things don't tend to get as much coverage in discussions as what was actual= ly done, even though there is a real lesson in what the person who just did= something wishes they'd done differently.

This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently"

Another good one would be "Wh= at I'd do again"




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