X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-m009e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.8] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9345738 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 15:14:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.8; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.144]) by omr-m009e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 9B4B438000A6 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:13:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-mda09f.mail.aol.com (core-mda09.mail.aol.com [172.27.39.9]) by mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5F8F138000087 for ; Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:13:59 -0500 (EST) Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: <24d599.44314a55.45a15486@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the same. To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_24d599.44314a55.45a15486_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 19 X-Originating-IP: [97.97.209.151] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1483733639; bh=Qzovd2uQliQqAgL422N84/wmV5ys8ZBEykCS2wG1dgc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=oup8WM4314hfuJ7UstuMUSP9OOFXt6rhFnhIoqaJlrwH+LYHKHp9Y2ApTd7wCIChm 5IVM8TtSX4F0fFWwy25IjBuUcVCzYYM8z6En/2RfqMlT6XSk+9W5R/qd1nSS94joMn fhM1/G8Gy2g3K9Dse5yNug1qhQRFdQMVxg7jEESA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe90586ffa873ca4 --part1_24d599.44314a55.45a15486_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Harbor Fright has a nice engine crane that breaks down into a small =20 footprint. I used mine to put a 550 in a Bonanza. No problem. Loan it out= to =20 friends or just sell it when you are done. Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 In a message dated 1/6/2017 2:27:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: Can NOT lift a typical car that is=E2=80=A6 =20 =20 =20 =E2=80=94 James On Jan 6, 2017, at 11:26 AM, James R. Osborn <_rxcited@gmail.com_=20 (mailto:rxcited@gmail.com) > wrote: I love the crane idea. However, installing an XY crane might be a bit= =20 pricey. I did a quick search and found this beast. Seems reasonably pri= ced=20 and I think would serve the same purpose. Can lift a typical car with=20 this thing, but with 1 ton capacity, the FWF package ought to be doable= for=20 all our experimental installations: =20 http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/hoists-cranes/cranes-g= an try/steel-gantry-crane-10-fixed-height-2000-lb-capacity-1?infoParam.campai= gn Id=3DT9F&gclid=3DCOavx_WYrtECFQ9EfgodkXsHcw =20 =20 =20 =E2=80=94 James _rxcited@gmail.com_ (mailto:rxcited@gmail.com)=20 510-377-4514 On Jan 5, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Todd Bartrim <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrote: =20 Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing! I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist,= =20 but on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 yea= rs=20 from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a= =20 quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first fl= ight,=20 then learning to fly. It was all great fun at home in my shop where I could work on it every= =20 spare minute. There was many very late nights where the creativity was=20 coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up in the middle of th= e=20 night with a great idea and head to the shop. Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working on it= =20 out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it was hard= =20 to continue experimenting with it out there and I started regretting doin= g=20 some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I tried to deny this= to=20 myself and stay excited and positive about it all. By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really=20 interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought the land acro= ss the=20 road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to raise and a=20 thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to get interested= again.=20 Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but from my= =20 reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many projects get= =20 abandoned at this point. =20 So from that, what would I do differently? Hard to be sure since I didn'= t=20 have the flight experience to make some different choices, but even an=20 extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace wouldn't have hurt.= That=20 old saying about if you don't have time to do it right the first time, th= en=20 when are you going to find time to do it the second time, is even harder= =20 when you are no longer in your well equipped shop while doing it the seco= nd=20 time. Now it's not like the workmanship is bad, when I say about doing it= =20 right, but rather if some of our design choices are constrained by the=20 amount of work involved. Now I would rather do an almost unreasonable amo= unt of=20 work in the comfort of my shop than almost anything in the field. I reall= y=20 enjoy building at home, but when it's not at home I just want to fly it. Previously I would cling to questionable half-baked ideas because of= =20 the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's not to say that half-b= aked=20 ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move on and try=20 something else regardless of time and money investment if I don't feel go= od=20 about something. So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are= =20 certain that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the wor= k=20 involved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenient= =20 work space. And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at home, you= =20 can disregard this advice. I could fill several more posts about more specific items that I'd do =20 differently but this was really the big picture and once again it may seem= =20 obvious to many but that has been my experience. =20 Todd Bartrim RV9 13Bturbo Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in building this= =20 plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter. =20 =20 Ernest Christley 7:35 AM (7 hours ago) =20 to Rotary =20 =20 =20 George started us on a good topic. Building an airplane is an expensive= =20 and labor intensive process. I've made many decisions where I didn't rea= lly=20 like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to change= =20 it even less. Those things don't tend to get as much coverage in =20 discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real lesson= in what=20 the person who just did something wishes they'd done differently. This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently" Another good one would be "What I'd do again" =3D --part1_24d599.44314a55.45a15486_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Harbor Fright has a nice engine crane that breaks down into a small= =20 footprint. I used mine to put a 550 in a Bonanza. No problem. Loan it out= to=20 friends or just sell it when you are done.
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 1/6/2017 2:27:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
Can NOT=20 lift a typical car that is=E2=80=A6=20

=E2=80=94 James


On Jan 6, 2017, at 11:26 AM, James R. Osborn <rxcited@gmail.com> wrote:
I=20 love the crane idea.   However, installing an XY crane might be= a bit=20 pricey.  I did a quick search and found this beast.  Seems= =20 reasonably priced and I think would serve the same purpose.  Can= lift a=20 typical car with this thing, but with 1 ton capacity, the FWF package= ought=20 to be doable for all our experimental installations:=20

http://ww= w.globalindustrial.com/p/material-handling/hoists-cranes/cranes-gantry/ste= el-gantry-crane-10-fixed-height-2000-lb-capacity-1?infoParam.campaignId=3D= T9F&gclid=3DCOavx_WYrtECFQ9EfgodkXsHcw

=E2=80=94 James
510-377-4514


On Jan 5, 2017, at 4:23 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>=20 wrote:

Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight=20 thing!

I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engi= ne=20 hoist, but on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the= air in=20 3 years from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, buil= ding=20 (not a quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF= to=20 first flight, then learning to fly.
   It was all great fun at home in my shop where I co= uld=20 work on it every spare minute. There was many very late nights where= the=20 creativity was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up= in=20 the middle of the night with a great idea and head to the shop.
   Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport.= I hated=20 working on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons= why,=20 but it was hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I st= arted=20 regretting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried.= I=20 tried to deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it= =20 all.
    By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I= was=20 not really interested in dealing with it. And since we had just boug= ht the=20 land across the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a= kid to=20 raise and a thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to= get=20 interested again. 
   Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of sel= ling=20 it, but from my reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how= so=20 many projects get abandoned at this point.
  
 So from that, what would I do differently? Hard to be sur= e=20 since I didn't have the flight experience to make some different cho= ices,=20 but even an extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace wou= ldn't=20 have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have time to do it rig= ht the=20 first time, then when are you going to find time to do it the second= time,=20 is even harder when you are no longer in your well equipped shop whi= le=20 doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workmanship is bad,= when I=20 say about doing it right, but rather if some of our design choices= are=20 constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would rather do an= =20 almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop than al= most=20 anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when it'= s not=20 at home I just want to fly it.
   Previously I would cling to questionable half-bake= d=20 ideas because of the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's= not to=20 say that half-baked ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more like= ly to=20 move on and try something else regardless of time and money investme= nt if=20 I don't feel good about something.
   So when you're considering something like relocati= ng a=20 cooler and are certain that it would improve performance but don't= want to=20 to do the work involved, just do it when you're still in a well equi= pped=20 and convenient work space.
   And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and= hangar=20 at home, you can disregard this advice.
I could fill several more posts about more specific items that= I'd do=20 differently but this was really the big picture and once again it ma= y seem=20 obvious to many but that has been my experience.

Todd Bartrim
RV9 13Bturbo

Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in buil= ding=20 this plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't=20 matter.

Erne= st=20 Christley
7:35 AM (7 hours ago)=20
3D=<= /SPAN>
3D""=20<= /DIV>
3D""=20<= /DIV>
to Rotary
3D""=20
George started us= on a good=20 topic.  Building an airplane is an expensive and labor intensiv= e=20 process.  I've made many decisions where I didn't really like= =20 something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to change= it=20 even less.  Those things don't tend to get as much coverage in= =20 discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real= lesson=20 in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done=20 differently.

This thread could= be=20 renamed "What I'd done differently"

Another good one wo= uld be=20 "What I'd do=20 again"


=3D --part1_24d599.44314a55.45a15486_boundary--