X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm18-vm5.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.217.220] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9343495 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 22:59:23 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.217.220; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1483675146; bh=bjjLgPjky7xw4PBh1rbQEAODyX5DsgXIhzleS69fWoM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=VioTPXe8XohxaNbfzizDI0uL5I3oBIp0yDEvbYoOWWG/mTl4lXY/nMAauSKmiLEzJWfnd4pqEpeRpdLjBC+bb0gslRkpmnjiOxdrSv8Uhf3B4qaPUnK2ypO0VCn1e2SBnd9mTX4gxAiZJPBb35Qub/aKv94q9MjQiV02orLSvfc= Received: from [216.39.60.181] by nm18.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 03:59:06 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.199] by tm17.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 03:59:06 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Jan 2017 03:59:06 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 178846.34805.bm@omp1007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: PZwF4W0VM1m7PobkIU61lxHydyqTo0aiArpqcWvGc14zsJyIyuFh60ZeUFjBisp DjklbPE.UqzTF5bsXs3QskbVVQOjnbe0U8ubOluquhOEUhs3MQym.3RIdN02AFPIEkq9LbB7S2Y1 TMRGU6tDroRruBpZw2p8tJZhOiF8cSlDcgK54lzHfHHYC8cgYChY.Bjtvc1LAwdlgOCeFzW2xCAU cmv.S.KZc9Onh9U9xfF51_ofgBiqRErTQrPWzRzbmFRK3OeUOpWwWJE31yV5BJry01P_PexNuCg2 WoILvpF_d6g82iTeCG30JWsCQ4aRHj4rq7qpnnz9cam6n6T_Q4wWw3zFH6TmDkhZ73R2szu2wtmz HO9H4KFMf04zj.7nq4LuewGs8RtCfDRc.8wY.TXcSJcBh3whC05wOY2YtC33Uh6iCGHffOoFXczg irMrHEuSV1hhUaHcjqavYO1pJM5uEnCsNmTlkoaGPtQL_csid0S959FXSTc63W5Ny7QkIJj7fvLB o_3U4GtWmOPLjlMhyzadjz6uxnnd5S7AEl3a0FLtxBO8ODIkHnL37VenGBhtcIhY- Received: from jws300028.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws147.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Fri, 06 Jan 2017 03:59:05 +0000; 1483675145.714 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 03:59:05 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <622096498.1395359.1483675145469@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: What I'd do differently... or the same. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1395358_924650607.1483675145463" Content-Length: 19522 ------=_Part_1395358_924650607.1483675145463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll add a third voice to that regret.I got the current airplane "done" (qu= otes, because they're never really done), and with the pink slip in hand, s= kirted the top of the trees to get to a long strip of asphalt. Fixing the punch list items out on the tarmac was a royal pain.=C2=A0 Every= thing was a field repair out of the back of my jeep, and half the tools I n= eeded to borrow.=C2=A0 I now have it back at its home airport, where all my= tools are, and that is inconvenient enough where my punchlist never seems = to shrink fast enough. =20 On Thursday, January 5, 2017 9:14 PM, Andrew Martin wrote: =20 Good write up Todd. I feel like I'm walking in your boots, nearly identical experience,=C2=A0 I= had learnt to fly 20 years prior to building but had only accumulated 100h= rs for all the usual reasons before deciding to build.=20 Now trying to re-engineer the cooling system at a municipal airport (not fu= n at all) so I can bring it home to the farm. Had 4 short flights between m= inor modifications where I've appreciated the multiple and long runways, bu= t it is very easy to just leave it sitting there and do no work on it. I'm = now trying to mount radiator under belly so the oil cooler can have all the= cowl air. In hindsight, I should have just put it back on the trailer & to= wed it home. Andrew Western Australia. On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Todd Bartrim = wrote: Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing! I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, bu= t on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years f= rom knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a quic= kbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first flight, = then learning to fly.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It was all great fun at home in my shop w= here I could work on it every spare minute. There was many very late nights= where the creativity was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wak= e up in the middle of the night with a great idea and head to the shop.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working = on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it was = hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I started regretting d= oing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I tried to deny th= is to myself and stay excited and positive about it all.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 By th= e time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really interested in de= aling with it. And since we had just bought the land across the road, I had= a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to raise and a thousand other d= istractions, so that it took till now to get interested again.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but from m= y reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many projects get= abandoned at this point.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0So from that, what would I do di= fferently? Hard to be sure since I didn't have the flight experience to mak= e some different choices, but even an extra year in the shop going at a lit= tle slower pace wouldn't have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have= time to do it right the first time, then when are you going to find time t= o do it the second time, is even harder when you are no longer in your well= equipped shop while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workma= nship is bad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our de= sign choices are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would ra= ther do an almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop tha= n almost anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when i= t's not at home I just want to fly it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Previously I would cling= to questionable half-baked ideas because of the time and money that I'd in= vested in it. That's not to say that half-baked ideas are all bad, but now = I'll be far more likely to move on and try something else regardless of tim= e and money investment if I don't feel good about something.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So= when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are certain= that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the work involve= d, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenient work spac= e.=C2=A0 =C2=A0And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at = home, you can disregard this advice.I could fill several more posts about m= ore specific items that I'd do differently but this was really the big pict= ure and once again it may seem obvious to many but that has been my experie= nce. Todd BartrimRV9 13Bturbo Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in building this pl= ane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter. |=20 |=20 Ernest Christley | | 7:35 AM (7 hours ago) | | | |=20 | to=C2=A0Rotary | | George started us on a good topic.=C2=A0 Building an airplane is an expensi= ve and labor intensive process.=C2=A0 I've made many decisions where I didn= 't really like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to= change it even less.=C2=A0 Those things don't tend to get as much coverage= in discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real less= on in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done differently= . This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently" Another good one would be "What I'd do again" =20 ------=_Part_1395358_924650607.1483675145463 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'll add a third voice to that regret.
I got the current airplane "done" (quotes, because the= y're never really done), and with the pink slip in hand, skirted the top of= the trees to get to a long strip of asphalt.

Fixing the punch list items out on the tarmac was a royal pain.&= nbsp; Everything was a field repair out of the back of my jeep, and half th= e tools I needed to borrow.  I now have it back at its home airport, w= here all my tools are, and that is inconvenient enough where my punchlist n= ever seems to shrink fast enough.


On Thursday, January 5, 2017 9:14 PM, Andrew Martin <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Good wr= ite up Todd.

I feel like I'm walking in your boots, nearly ide= ntical experience,  I had learnt to fly 20 years prior to building but= had only accumulated 100hrs for all the usual reasons before deciding to b= uild.
Now trying to re-engineer the cooling system at a municipal= airport (not fun at all) so I can bring it home to the farm. Had 4 short f= lights between minor modifications where I've appreciated the multiple and = long runways, but it is very easy to just leave it sitting there and do no = work on it. I'm now trying to mount radiator under belly so the oil cooler = can have all the cowl air. In hindsight, I should have just put it back on = the trailer & towed it home.

Andrew
Western Australia.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:23 AM,= Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Yeah, this is a= good topic because of that damn hindsight thing!

= I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, bu= t on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years f= rom knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a quic= kbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first flight, = then learning to fly.
   It was all great fun at home i= n my shop where I could work on it every spare minute. There was many very = late nights where the creativity was coming fast and furious and lots of ti= mes I'd wake up in the middle of the night with a great idea and head to th= e shop.
   Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airp= ort. I hated working on it out there. I could go on with a long list of rea= sons why, but it was hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I= started regretting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I trie= d. I tried to deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it al= l.
    By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I= was not really interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought= the land across the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid= to raise and a thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to ge= t interested again. 
   Fortunately, my wife only = once made mention of selling it, but from my reaction never mentioned it ag= ain, but I can see how so many projects get abandoned at this point.
<= div>  
 So from that, what would I do differently?= Hard to be sure since I didn't have the flight experience to make some dif= ferent choices, but even an extra year in the shop going at a little slower= pace wouldn't have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have time to d= o it right the first time, then when are you going to find time to do it th= e second time, is even harder when you are no longer in your well equipped = shop while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workmanship is b= ad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our design choic= es are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would rather do an= almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop than almost a= nything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when it's not at= home I just want to fly it.
   Previously I would clin= g to questionable half-baked ideas because of the time and money that I'd i= nvested in it. That's not to say that half-baked ideas are all bad, but now= I'll be far more likely to move on and try something else regardless of ti= me and money investment if I don't feel good about something.
&nb= sp;  So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and= are certain that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the = work involved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenie= nt work space.
   And all you lucky SOB's that have an = airstrip and hangar at home, you can disregard this advice.
I cou= ld fill several more posts about more specific items that I'd do differentl= y but this was really the big picture and once again it may seem obvious to= many but that has been my experience.

= Todd Bartrim
RV9 13Bturbo

Ps. I often ge= t asked about how many hours are involved in building this plane. I just la= ugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter.
=

Ernest Christley

7:35 AM (7= hours ago)
3D""
3D""
3D""=
to Rotary
3D""
George started us on a good topic.&nb= sp; Building an airplane is an expensive and labor intensive process. = I've made many decisions where I didn't really like something, but liked t= he prospect of the time and expense to change it even less.  Those thi= ngs don't tend to get as much coverage in discussions as what was actually = done, even though there is a real lesson in what the person who just did so= mething wishes they'd done differently.

This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently"

Another good one would be "What I'd do again"



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