X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Andrew Martin" Received: from mail-yw0-f180.google.com ([209.85.161.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.14) with ESMTPS id 9343377 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:13:49 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.180; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by mail-yw0-f180.google.com with SMTP id v81so257076934ywb.2 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 18:13:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FzbZBfxp3yqJYB9/mVvUZC9YmTOynG+GshXBdiR+k28=; b=gjKgISiLlsEP1mjIpPuBQCE76g2Iqy7JKCaZhUnsss6k2pH9g+QSE4amogkHEjmQXu tRt8sFwnwD/QL14M602OFpgJ8tO+gBZ8E9U0Yt3lNwyz88/f6Mu37q2trfXohFa0v5Zo nVwF9C0in2L1z3COlZfvGsPjBNNQ5ZF8z1hIrcZX4bvrZBvJOh/lb+n8Jx/TIhFjFIFL 3w9Ha0t21jQS8OvrXjGrRWZj9eo5JQmiseap+3OG3pSgM1Uo5WtQeV0gFPsMEcjZh/Gl iaCdnJYBi5Kh9iu4pLNrNw75qyxcRB3bGOWJCPQZIzo200YGKRCZcDdGfonF9SmyjH4q zyPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=FzbZBfxp3yqJYB9/mVvUZC9YmTOynG+GshXBdiR+k28=; b=CdoYe7JWHMCeGva9cIcktpm7tatpXCNFrbla+e6j/GKuIR5QZlsdVjwjU/myAxL6ho RaXfmfrLZFwTuJUuCtpSAgKfOYjYblN2CQjxj+zhlMFb9iuLTd/tmDTVym60n3Y0/NDf ODZH6Zcwvgm352v9PF112wgDjQQFmgbtAytqjkszdiV00XPMn9+8smiQIE702r/LMikP W6pEuqQ/GUdzSQPc0II19acnoxCyyD46LOPS7P8hj2ywkJ+J/X8trTwCDDbaLj1+i6N9 ICNStexFx4vtv5TtgbLreVw7ayWBqTUg2w4s5ffN/Wa7EoA1SKyRw34R3SV9IlKAh6cZ VPag== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLm7BtqUcfU4DaaPCvK1cwk0wlKMv1nMvrgnz4P7nKVB6LRC9v6JCom0WJYz8tOeMdKrEMlDPDVV+JB3A== X-Received: by 10.13.246.134 with SMTP id g128mr73115751ywf.320.1483668812861; Thu, 05 Jan 2017 18:13:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.83.81.209 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 18:12:52 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [202.40.0.40] In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 10:12:52 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] What I'd do differently... or the same. To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0327c48e4af4054563904d --94eb2c0327c48e4af4054563904d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Good write up Todd. I feel like I'm walking in your boots, nearly identical experience, I had learnt to fly 20 years prior to building but had only accumulated 100hrs for all the usual reasons before deciding to build. Now trying to re-engineer the cooling system at a municipal airport (not fun at all) so I can bring it home to the farm. Had 4 short flights between minor modifications where I've appreciated the multiple and long runways, but it is very easy to just leave it sitting there and do no work on it. I'm now trying to mount radiator under belly so the oil cooler can have all the cowl air. In hindsight, I should have just put it back on the trailer & towed it home. Andrew Western Australia. On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Todd Bartrim wrote: > Yeah, this is a good topic because of that damn hindsight thing! > > I already listed the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, > but on another more practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years > from knowing nothing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a > quickbuild), designing and building an alternative engine FWF to first > flight, then learning to fly. > It was all great fun at home in my shop where I could work on it every > spare minute. There was many very late nights where the creativity was > coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake up in the middle of the > night with a great idea and head to the shop. > Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated working on it > out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, but it was hard > to continue experimenting with it out there and I started regretting doing > some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I tried to deny this to > myself and stay excited and positive about it all. > By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not really > interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought the land across > the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to raise and a > thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to get interested > again. > Fortunately, my wife only once made mention of selling it, but from my > reaction never mentioned it again, but I can see how so many projects get > abandoned at this point. > > So from that, what would I do differently? Hard to be sure since I didn't > have the flight experience to make some different choices, but even an > extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace wouldn't have hurt. > That old saying about if you don't have time to do it right the first time, > then when are you going to find time to do it the second time, is even > harder when you are no longer in your well equipped shop while doing it the > second time. Now it's not like the workmanship is bad, when I say about > doing it right, but rather if some of our design choices are constrained by > the amount of work involved. Now I would rather do an almost unreasonable > amount of work in the comfort of my shop than almost anything in the field. > I really enjoy building at home, but when it's not at home I just want to > fly it. > Previously I would cling to questionable half-baked ideas because of > the time and money that I'd invested in it. That's not to say that > half-baked ideas are all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move on > and try something else regardless of time and money investment if I don't > feel good about something. > So when you're considering something like relocating a cooler and are > certain that it would improve performance but don't want to to do the work > involved, just do it when you're still in a well equipped and convenient > work space. > And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at home, you > can disregard this advice. > I could fill several more posts about more specific items that I'd do > differently but this was really the big picture and once again it may seem > obvious to many but that has been my experience. > > Todd Bartrim > RV9 13Bturbo > > Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involved in building this > plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It doesn't matter. > Ernest Christley > 7:35 AM (7 hours ago) > to Rotary > George started us on a good topic. Building an airplane is an expensive > and labor intensive process. I've made many decisions where I didn't > really like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to > change it even less. Those things don't tend to get as much coverage in > discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real lesson > in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done differently. > > This thread could be renamed "What I'd done differently" > > Another good one would be "What I'd do again" > --94eb2c0327c48e4af4054563904d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good write up Todd.

I feel like I&#= 39;m walking in your boots, nearly identical experience,=C2=A0 I had learnt= to fly 20 years prior to building but had only accumulated 100hrs for all = the usual reasons before deciding to build.
Now trying to re-engi= neer the cooling system at a municipal airport (not fun at all) so I can br= ing it home to the farm. Had 4 short flights between minor modifications wh= ere I've appreciated the multiple and long runways, but it is very easy= to just leave it sitting there and do no work on it. I'm now trying to= mount radiator under belly so the oil cooler can have all the cowl air. In= hindsight, I should have just put it back on the trailer & towed it ho= me.

Andrew
Western Australia.

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Todd Bartrim= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Yeah, this is a good topic beca= use of that damn hindsight thing!

I already listed= the one thing about the overhead crane or engine hoist, but on another mor= e practical note. I got my airplane in the air in 3 years from knowing noth= ing about airplanes to choosing a kit, building (not a quickbuild), designi= ng and building an alternative engine FWF to first flight, then learning to= fly.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0It was all great fun at home in my shop where = I could work on it every spare minute. There was many very late nights wher= e the creativity was coming fast and furious and lots of times I'd wake= up in the middle of the night with a great idea and head to the shop.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Then I was in a hurry to move it to the airport. I hated= working on it out there. I could go on with a long list of reasons why, bu= t it was hard to continue experimenting with it out there and I started reg= retting doing some things that I was otherwise glad that I tried. I tried t= o deny this to myself and stay excited and positive about it all.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 By the time that I took it home 2 years later, I was not rea= lly interested in dealing with it. And since we had just bought the land ac= ross the road, I had a new shop to build, barns to build, a kid to raise an= d a thousand other distractions, so that it took till now to get interested= again.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Fortunately, my wife only once made me= ntion of selling it, but from my reaction never mentioned it again, but I c= an see how so many projects get abandoned at this point.
=C2=A0= =C2=A0
=C2=A0So from that, what would I do differently? Hard to b= e sure since I didn't have the flight experience to make some different= choices, but even an extra year in the shop going at a little slower pace = wouldn't have hurt. That old saying about if you don't have time to= do it right the first time, then when are you going to find time to do it = the second time, is even harder when you are no longer in your well equippe= d shop while doing it the second time. Now it's not like the workmanshi= p is bad, when I say about doing it right, but rather if some of our design= choices are constrained by the amount of work involved. Now I would rather= do an almost unreasonable amount of work in the comfort of my shop than al= most anything in the field. I really enjoy building at home, but when it= 9;s not at home I just want to fly it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Previously I = would cling to questionable half-baked ideas because of the time and money = that I'd invested in it. That's not to say that half-baked ideas ar= e all bad, but now I'll be far more likely to move on and try something= else regardless of time and money investment if I don't feel good abou= t something.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0So when you're considering somethin= g like relocating a cooler and are certain that it would improve performanc= e but don't want to to do the work involved, just do it when you're= still in a well equipped and convenient work space.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0And all you lucky SOB's that have an airstrip and hangar at home, yo= u can disregard this advice.
I could fill several more posts abou= t more specific items that I'd do differently but this was really the b= ig picture and once again it may seem obvious to many but that has been my = experience.

Todd Bartrim
RV9 13Bturbo

Ps. I often get asked about how many hours are involve= d in building this plane. I just laugh and say I don't know or care. It= doesn't matter.
<= tr class=3D"m_-5778286671375809550gmail-acZ">=

Ernest Christley

=
7:35 AM (7 hours = ago)
3D""
3D""
3D""
to=C2=A0Rotary
3D""
George starte= d us on a good topic.=C2=A0 Building an airplane is an expensive and labor = intensive process.=C2=A0 I've made many decisions where I didn't re= ally like something, but liked the prospect of the time and expense to chan= ge it even less.=C2=A0 Those things don't tend to get as much coverage = in discussions as what was actually done, even though there is a real lesso= n in what the person who just did something wishes they'd done differen= tly.

This thread= could be renamed "What I'd done differently"

Another good one would be "= ;What I'd do again"

--94eb2c0327c48e4af4054563904d--