X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pg0-f52.google.com ([74.125.83.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.12) with ESMTPS id 9210779 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 19:31:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.83.52; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x23so62463492pgx.1 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 16:31:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=yjeK8YgOUCtKZAQUhZs0cIq3/jZy5o4LhELCyyaKRwU=; b=lAMKGAr6U2jb9qsG7XJM98AsvS2Xfv3pHwLo9Gc1t2bia2FgVBbsSwFaJsd28n1wCQ rD8dz91fts7VXaGY4xy+z+uCidWI3LxaKWwItzmarPbKVPjxB/OqvdKv90uh3VDO6u5E pmpVmr/j8Z2tJozxXO/y2CRgegH//eWIGGTBn6qUyMNsJdCMpD0C1W4TAA5mPFicklsJ zgxFcg+e3b/AfM0TdYLJY6QEXeK7rqKEUOm7Z55A/VmWLZBCoFp0Y0AIoqO8tpMmaopF UvJW06FlX0cLBcqL2GGYFAAAdPXRTbPOlP4GnaCv5X95Eyvw3J+W3rYSJyseNCjkljCP 6BQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=yjeK8YgOUCtKZAQUhZs0cIq3/jZy5o4LhELCyyaKRwU=; b=ic3KkYuNoBIsqICYU3K7QfgYjUWfbHdIeg8u6DEl/OD2N8g+1kRukKtyOJ1d5WrA8k cfun7j9xvMfZ78jfrIhZpXKV53WDNx33ZatVJPHWyjlAwzJCYrev30Zd7muITd2/tx1g 3di68ZvdauMZUry5+JdNWTx/G1jdPTghJeJTnKVxUPSkgEuK+f/L2TPWsViCkNkASmA2 jNvrSOexx0oun+09tqHFfnnw4GLoEjV4LHKD+rw5Viw+cFEd6Xr/wQcpsgJaMTaIKEgy Tm4Iv+Xdf6lnJxpwEGCX4n+Vth/vLs98IFETGDwf1b7SG00QoMNgAKjvLRRuXXzbZJMW kQiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC01Q87CYikxg68AQaBCWS8wD1vZrK1v7qotDo3tNz3FobIZi8PNMEyKWxommPKQfSw== X-Received: by 10.84.174.129 with SMTP id r1mr54623725plb.19.1480379465414; Mon, 28 Nov 2016 16:31:05 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.5] (124-148-93-146.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.148.93.146]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x123sm72025149pgb.3.2016.11.28.16.31.02 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Nov 2016 16:31:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7A56789E-F7E1-4A9A-B7ED-61930A69AF97" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] flight conditions for HX data Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 08:31:01 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7984E1EE-B983-4B99-98AB-7F60297115F5@icloud.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) --Apple-Mail=_7A56789E-F7E1-4A9A-B7ED-61930A69AF97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks for the data Steve. Congrats on successfully reaccelerated the air coming out the back of = the exchanger. Did you find in your research what kind of delta pressures we could aim = at for a successful installation? Ive got 4 or 5 MPX10GP=E2=80=99s that Ill build into a little pressure = sensor set to grab data for first flight. Ive not worked with reading pressures before. What would you recommend = for the business end of the pressure pickup for: 1. Pitot velocity measurement? 2. Average pressure measurement? Thanks Steve > On 27 Nov. 2016, at 4:28 pm, Steven W. Boese = wrote: >=20 > Steve, > Laramie Wyoming airport elevation is 7280 ft MSL. > The coolant delta T of ~8 deg F at the beginning of the data plot is a = result of the engine having been running for a few minutes before the = start of the data plot. I choose to process only the data for which the = Dynon has valid GPS times. I didn't turn on the GPS until after the = engine had been started. > I assembled a pressure logging system with four differential pressure = sensors that record pressures once per second to a SD card. Just as you = suggest, I recorded pressures at each exchanger inlet face and inside = the cowl near the cowl exit, all referenced to the airframe static = source. In my case, it didn't seem to matter very much where the = pressure probe was located inside the cowl. > For me, it is worth the effort to have the pressures recorded = automatically since recording the information manually is a distraction = and I certainly can't simply remember the data. This was of particular = concern for the first flight. > The figure is of the pressures recorded for the flight referenced in = the previous posts. The pressure for the airframe pitot was calculated = from the Dynon airspeed. The pressure at the cowl radiator is nearly = the same as the pressure near the cowl exit since the inlet to the duct = to the cowl radiator was closed. The airframe pitot does not perfectly = overlay the other pressures at the end of the plot since the sampling = rates of the Dynon and pressure recording system are not exactly equal. > =20 > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > >=20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > on behalf of Stephen Izett = > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 2:17 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flight conditions for HX data > =20 > Hi there Steve.=20 > Do you live at the Everest base camp! > The highest peak in Western Australia is 4000ft and its 800miles to my = North East. > I didn=E2=80=99t even know it was there till I looked it up just now. > I guess 99% of our land is flat with just a few hills. > Our greatest attraction is at altitude 0. Our beautiful beaches. >=20 > Thanks for the data. Even though your environment is so very different = to mine its interesting. > How do you start with a scoop Coolant delta of ~8F.=20 > Looks like your coolant rad gets delta=E2=80=99s of 13-18F in flight. >=20 > I suppose I just won=E2=80=99t know how she will go till she flies. > I=E2=80=99m planning to measure pressures relative to static during = that first flight. > I was thinking at each Exchanger face, and a few points around the = cowl. > My chief concern will be exit area so looking for any positive = pressure rise under the cowl. >=20 > Your flying and have married thinking with experience so any wisdom = from you would be appreciated. >=20 > Steve Izett >=20 >> On 26 Nov. 2016, at 4:10 pm, Steven W. Boese = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Steve, >>=20 >> Here is the flight data for the conditions under which the heat = exchanger data was collected. Three touch and go circuits were executed = before climbing to an altitude of about 10500 ft. The TAS is unstable = due to the winds aloft and the proximity to mountainous terrain. >>=20 >> Steve Boese >> RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 >> --Apple-Mail=_7A56789E-F7E1-4A9A-B7ED-61930A69AF97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks for the data Steve.
Congrats on = successfully reaccelerated the air coming out the back of the = exchanger.
Did you find in your research what kind = of delta pressures we could aim at for a successful = installation?

Ive got 4 or 5 MPX10GP=E2=80=99s that Ill = build into a little pressure sensor set to grab data for first = flight.
Ive not worked with reading pressures = before. What would you recommend for the business end of the pressure = pickup for:
1. Pitot velocity = measurement?
2. Average pressure = measurement?

Thanks
Steve

On = 27 Nov. 2016, at 4:28 pm, Steven W. Boese <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve,

Laramie Wyoming airport elevation is = 7280 ft MSL.
The coolant delta T of ~8 deg F at the beginning of the data = plot is a result of the engine having been running for a few minutes = before the start of the data plot.  I choose to process only = the data for which the Dynon has valid GPS times.  I didn't turn on = the GPS until after the engine had been started.
I assembled a = pressure logging system with four differential pressure sensors that = record pressures once per second to a SD card.  Just as you = suggest, I recorded pressures at each exchanger inlet face and inside = the cowl near the cowl exit, all referenced to the airframe static = source.  In my case, it didn't seem to matter very much where the = pressure probe was located inside the cowl.
For me, it is = worth the effort to have the pressures recorded automatically = since recording the information manually is a distraction and = I certainly can't simply remember the data.  This was of = particular concern for the first flight.
The figure = is of the pressures recorded for the flight referenced in the previous = posts.  The pressure for the airframe pitot was calculated from the = Dynon airspeed.  The pressure at the cowl radiator is nearly the = same as the pressure near the cowl exit since the inlet to the duct = to the cowl radiator was closed.  The airframe pitot does = not perfectly overlay the other pressures at the end of the plot = since the sampling rates of the Dynon and = pressure recording system are not exactly equal.

 

Steve = Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

<pressures.jpg>


From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Stephen = Izett <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 = 2:17 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flight = conditions for HX data
 
Hi there Steve. 
Do you live at the = Everest base camp!
The highest peak in Western Australia = is 4000ft and its 800miles to my North East.
I = didn=E2=80=99t even know it was there till I looked it up just = now.
I guess 99% of our land is flat with just a = few hills.
Our greatest attraction is at altitude = 0. Our beautiful beaches.

Thanks for the data. Even though your environment is so very = different to mine its interesting.
How do you start = with a scoop Coolant delta of ~8F. 
Looks like = your coolant rad gets delta=E2=80=99s of 13-18F in flight.

I suppose I just won=E2=80= =99t know how she will go till she flies.
I=E2=80=99m= planning to measure pressures relative to static during that first = flight.
I was thinking at each Exchanger face, and = a few points around the cowl.
My chief concern will = be exit area so looking for any positive pressure rise under the = cowl.

Your = flying and have married thinking with experience so any wisdom from you = would be appreciated.

Steve Izett

On 26 Nov. 2016, at 4:10 pm, Steven W. Boese = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Steve,

Here is the = flight data for the conditions under which the heat exchanger data was = collected.  Three touch and go circuits were executed before = climbing to an altitude of about 10500 ft.  The TAS is unstable due = to the winds aloft and the proximity to mountainous terrain.

Steve = Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2
<flight = overview.jpg>
<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail=_7A56789E-F7E1-4A9A-B7ED-61930A69AF97--