X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Neil Unger" Received: from nschwmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.189.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.12) with ESMTPS id 9144109 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 17:10:48 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.189.137; envelope-from=neil.unger@bigpond.com Received: from nschwcmgw05p ([61.9.190.165]) by nschwmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20161115221029.QMJD16828.nschwmtas01p.mx.bigpond.com@nschwcmgw05p> for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:10:29 +0000 Received: from UserPC ([101.174.174.49]) by nschwcmgw05p with BigPond Outbound id 8NAT1u00N14JwXZ01NATqJ; Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:10:29 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=RY5tcAZv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=e3xR/q92VF2lpvC08U/XeQ==:117 a=e3xR/q92VF2lpvC08U/XeQ==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=-oPyXk2uAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=kcXkMdCoqCK5feadmUoA:9 a=zofNROkZAHGa0ruV:21 a=JoFzkmwOTAuJpfid:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=1IlZJK9HAAAA:8 a=eSJSonsBGtglSJn3MfYA:9 a=iVwhiv35qKR0icA6:21 a=mm7p-vZRCHmn45_Z:21 a=PFyN-dwCTfY2HWou:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=76SXQFd4mL06Lcnut33J:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 a=oJD61gEoyF4gH69-Jhd7:22 Message-ID: <018AA0DB04B8406395705D49322B8080@UserPC> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 09:09:44 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01D23FE9.2C2E7E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01D23FE9.2C2E7E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, now you are getting the problem. Neil From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 9:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Good morning! Couldn=E2=80=99t sleep so doing some work in bed (laptops = - a brilliant curse).=20 I get the restriction, and wondered about the pressure on the fan at = cruise speeds when rpm tries to imitate a turbo! Steve On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:55 am, Neil Unger = wrote: Yep, what are doing out of bed??? Also to add, if the fan is not = going it will cause restriction to the incoming air and work against the = cooling set up. Fans are very complicated. Neil. On 11/16/2016 8:53 AM, Stephen Izett wrote: Is that you, Mr Unger?=20 Steve On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:46 am, Neil Unger = wrote: Steve, forget the fan idea. It sounds simple but to be effective = it has to move enough air to duplicate you almost flying. Would guess 3 = hp min. not enough space and too complicated. The another thing to go = wrong. Get the ducting right will be much simpler. Neil. On 11/16/2016 8:23 AM, Stephen Izett wrote: Hi Bill=20 At this point there are no cowl flaps. I tried to create some = space for them should we need to increase exit volume. I think I'd be really happy with those temps. The cowl exits are ramps. When the front gear is down there is = significantly more exit area. There is about 36in2 of exit area (Gear door closed).=20 Inlet area is currently 17in2 (right cheek) feeding water = exchanger and 7in2 (lower round intake) feeding oil cooler. 7in2 of Left = cheek feeds air into the filter / throttle body, leaving about 10in2 of = the left cheek blanked off at present. The Prop is a second hand electric adjustable from New Zealand. = They are no longer available. Its performance is unknown at this stage. = The design was taken over by Phil at www.sprintaero.com . Have you heard of anyone using electric fans for on the ground = running? Cheers Steve Izett On 15 Nov. 2016, at 11:26 pm, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Steve, =20 You could try using SCAT ducting to route any unused inlets = over to the water to improve the volume of air. What do your cowl exits = look like? In order to really know how everything is working you are = going to have to fly. It will be difficult to do a full power takeoff = and then go into high speed cruise and have the cooling work perfectly = for both conditions unless you have cowl flaps or some manner of = controlling the air. I currently accept 210-220 on takeoff in order to = get 180-190 in cruise. =20 That plane is going to be fast! It looks like 200K just = sitting in the hangar! =20 What prop is that? =20 Bill=20 =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 3:13 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling =20 Hi there Bill. The water exchanger is ~540 cubic inch in capacity and fed = from the right cheek via a rotating trumpet shaped diffuser which in = turn feeds a wedge. The oil exchanger is a turbo RX7 unit of 190 cubic = inch capacity and fed via a trumpet/wedge diffuser fed from below the = spinner. I=E2=80=99ll send some pictures separately as they are = together to large. =20 Cheers Steve Izett =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On 15 Nov. 2016, at 1:00 pm, Bill Bradburry = wrote: =20 Steve, Can you share any photos of your cooling install? Oil and = water. Bill=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 4:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Hi guys. The Glasair SIIRG is near completion and we are taxi testing. The OAT is rising as we enter summer. Yesterday was 37C ~ = 100F. She can idle forever with water stabilising below 220F and oil = below 180F if the OAT is below 70F but not sure yet about the warmer days. I'm wondering about 3 options and would value your experience = and thoughts: 1. Route some more air from the left cheek into the water heat = exchange diffuser currently fed by the right cheek. I am currently only = using 50% of the left cheek (Blanked off). The other 50% of the left cheek = feeds air to the engine. The air is likely not to want to do the gymnastics = required to travel the path available.=20 2. Install another small core fed by the available left cheek = air with water from the heater outlet. This would make for easy plumping as = far as the water system. I'm not sure how much heat we could reject from = that small diameter heater outlet? 3. Install an electric fan on the main exchanger for extended = on the ground running. Main concern with fan is, what happens when cruising = at up to 200Knots?=20 Appreciate you feedback Steve Izett Glasair SIIRG Genesis 4 port RD1C EC2 Perth Western Australia -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01D23FE9.2C2E7E20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,  now you are getting the problem.  Neil
 
From: Stephen Izett
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 9:03 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling
 
Good=20 morning! Couldn=E2=80=99t sleep so doing some work in bed (laptops - a = brilliant curse).=20
I get the restriction, and wondered about the pressure on the fan = at cruise=20 speeds when rpm tries to imitate a turbo!
 
Steve
On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:55 am, Neil Unger=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 

Yep,  what are doing out of bed???  Also to add, if the = fan is=20 not going it will cause restriction to the incoming air and work = against the=20 cooling set up.  Fans are very complicated.  = Neil.


On 11/16/2016 8:53 AM, Stephen Izett=20 wrote:
Is that = you, Mr=20 Unger?=20
Steve
On 16 Nov. 2016, at 5:46 am, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
 

Steve,  forget the fan idea.  It sounds simple but to = be=20 effective it has to move enough air to duplicate you almost = flying. =20 Would guess 3 hp min. not enough space and too complicated.  = The=20 another thing to go wrong.   Get the ducting right will = be much=20 simpler.  Neil.


On 11/16/2016 8:23 AM, Stephen Izett=20 wrote:
Hi = Bill=20
At this point there are no cowl flaps. I tried to create = some space=20 for them should we need to increase exit volume.
I think I'd be really happy with those temps.
 
The cowl exits are ramps. When the front gear is down there = is=20 significantly more exit area.
There is about 36in2 of exit area (Gear door closed). =
Inlet area is currently 17in2 (right cheek) feeding water = exchanger=20 and 7in2 (lower round intake) feeding oil cooler. 7in2 of Left = cheek=20 feeds air into the filter / throttle body, leaving about 10in2 = of the=20 left cheek blanked off at present.
 
The Prop is a second hand electric adjustable from New = Zealand.=20 They are no longer available. Its performance is unknown at this = stage.=20 The design was taken over by Phil at  www.sprintaero.com .
 
Have you heard of anyone using electric fans for on the = ground=20 running?
 
Cheers
Steve Izett
 
 
 
<Mail = Attachment.jpeg>
<Mail = Attachment.jpeg><Mail=20 Attachment.jpeg>
On 15 Nov. 2016, at 11:26 pm, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
Steve,
 
You = could try=20 using SCAT ducting to route any unused inlets over to the = water to=20 improve the volume of air.  What do your cowl exits look=20 like?
In = order to=20 really know how everything is working you are going to have to = fly.  It will be difficult to do a full power takeoff and = then go=20 into high speed cruise and have the cooling work perfectly for = both=20 conditions unless you have cowl flaps or some manner of = controlling=20 the air.  I currently accept 210-220 on takeoff in order = to get=20 180-190 in cruise.
 
That plane is=20 going to be fast!  It looks like 200K just sitting in the = hangar!
 
What prop is=20 that?
 
Bill   
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November = 15, 2016=20 3:13 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Cooling
 
Hi there=20 Bill.
The water exchanger is ~540 cubic = inch in=20 capacity and fed from the right cheek via a rotating trumpet = shaped=20 diffuser which in turn feeds a wedge. The oil exchanger is a = turbo=20 RX7 unit of 190 cubic inch capacity and fed via a = trumpet/wedge=20 diffuser fed from below the=20 spinner.
I=E2=80=99ll send some pictures = separately as they are=20 together to large.

 
Cheers
Steve=20 Izett
 
<image001.jpg><= /o:p>
 
 
 
 
On 15 Nov. 2016, at 1:00 pm, Bill = Bradburry=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
Steve,
Can you share any photos = of your=20 cooling install?  Oil and water.

Bill 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Monday, = November=20 14, 2016 4:21 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Cooling

Hi guys.
The Glasair SIIRG is = near=20 completion and we are taxi testing.
The OAT is rising as we = enter=20 summer. Yesterday was 37C ~ 100F.
She can idle forever with = water=20 stabilising below 220F and oil below 180F if
the OAT is = below 70F=20 but not sure yet about the warmer days.
I'm wondering about = 3=20 options and would value your experience and thoughts:
1. = Route some=20 more air from the left cheek into the water heat = exchange
diffuser=20 currently fed by the right cheek. I am currently only using = 50%=20 of
the left cheek (Blanked off). The other 50% of the left = cheek=20 feeds air to
the engine. The air is likely not to want to = do the=20 gymnastics required to
travel the path available. 
2. Install = another small=20 core fed by the available left cheek air with water
from = the heater=20 outlet. This would make for easy plumping as far as = the
water=20 system. I'm not sure how much heat we could reject from that=20 small
diameter heater outlet?
3. Install an electric fan = on the=20 main exchanger for extended on the ground
running. Main = concern=20 with fan is, what happens when cruising at up = to
200Knots? 

Appreciate = you=20 feedback

Steve Izett
Glasair SIIRG Genesis 4 port = RD1C=20 EC2
Perth Western=20 = Australia


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Archive and=20 UnSub:
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