X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm26-vm10.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.216.137] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.12) with ESMTPS id 9042986 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 18:25:44 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.216.137; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1476743125; bh=IOqQ18cjDjIggQPtZpTZmWKurgY+q5YtDP8s1/zczgw=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=IGo2nBvjvlXXBOKS8JdBeJjAJufBLUQNkYuQ2BBgjSxZ/Ap3HG+R7ZXFOGJ0jPNW7RXkgTlFN2LZ+9lBihL/Ezi46ItgqJcXkPLIvixwpl8a6BwVAUKcKQkevIWNIuI01IFsSMKGBY+MU41UfNiNnUX6aG89HLXYp6Hgr85Pb10= Received: from [98.137.12.191] by nm26.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2016 22:25:25 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.195] by tm12.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2016 22:25:25 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2016 22:25:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 588590.78582.bm@omp1003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: ZGotT2sVM1nZDIP6d7LfUTVg_rkgeE5uMGL8QS_6KNS6f_XxUN3Pwhdp8SV74Qx 66I2i9C6DhDm__dUEX.lnF3tsZ333hNyY5vVvvEzhXX586pSGSYzApxNhlkToMGLJBv5xulGZtXd Xf4DzTRTNgCgXlU6bRuuuaSaNQndkosfJTPFeMuFyPsz5zCCS_gMIqor7QH_rJ_CsiuY8F6_oQGE 3R8vlep_wbQPdz0kUrb2JFSPok0w6zF.CHiVgn015p8XIQqf3xXU.sFKkMQoOLGAyYAAdg1X1i74 1aEa4mZjg00ptjDP.yIHcmtP1R_p_sOQsfwBnHNyc.dYrntxXrRVovnVwH9FKkEP2xfWdXzSJFa. KysfD2ZQ4.4jb466Mr8C2whVWpyWo2hqVumXJ3DT0I3OyQyRGxERIW11cVwY5pZJX4RE0zl2Fa_k 5M9d1LTBhfJJPYTVbRUvIFYH5Op9WxmTkJMELH24o73eBm4PVS3JyRhlo2Omt._pKM_9nfvuUSl4 yuiuWCcLdMtr1yvuAmL3NPjg3pCmtjgHVOhfhL7aOv2pMALOmp0IsXxmpYmQua41upeBTXg-- Received: from jws10716.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws123.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:25:25 +0000; 1476743125.097 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:25:24 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <1675209255.30095.1476743124703@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Neil Unger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_30094_692948574.1476743124690" Content-Length: 35383 ------=_Part_30094_692948574.1476743124690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You could make the tap.=C2=A0 Or this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-npt-taps/=3D14n37xc Then use this: http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum-pipe-fittings/=3D14n3999=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 Screw it in until it seals, and then trim the inside.=C2=A0 Cut the outside= to length.=20 On Monday, October 17, 2016 4:59 PM, Neil Unger wrote: =20 Charlie,=C2=A0 actually still experimenting.=C2=A0 The housing is turned= on a jig in the lathe as the cost of a thread tap for that size exceeds $2= 000!! Ouch.=C2=A0 The inner that seals onto the plug was just high temp sea= ler.=C2=A0 The outer can be sealer or wick in locktite.=C2=A0 The plug is a= luminium with a taper that is left rough to turbulate the air. apparently v= ery necessary. There are many ways to p port, so about to get some scrapped= housings to experiment with various methods.=C2=A0 Cheapest and best whate= ver that turns out to be.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 My second engine has a single TB.=C2=A0 About to fire up so will be a bal= l of knowledge as to what to NOT do shortly. Attached shows the TB and PSRU= . I have put 2.25 runners on=C2=A0 to see it it makes a difference. (not sh= own)=C2=A0 Neil. =20 On 10/17/2016 11:06 PM, Charlie England wrote: =20 Hi Neil,=20 Thanks for the pics, and please keep sharing.=20 Can you give us a blow-by-blow on the process? Do you simply bore the hou= sing on a mill? Straight threads? How do you seal them? Any special techniq= ues where the port goes through the chrome liner? Thread diameter? ID of th= e pipe? Aluminum, steel, or stainless?=20 And are you saying that one of you is running individual TB's, as shown i= n the pics, and the other has a plenum with single TB? Any noticeable diffe= rences in HP, BSFC, idle quality, etc?=20 My hat's off to y'all; you're doing some really interesting and innovativ= e work!=20 Charlie =20 On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 11:54 PM, Neil Unger = wrote: =20 Kelly, on the twin TB they are 50 mm while on the single (cheaper) is 80 = mm, comes off a V8.=C2=A0 Neil. =20 On 10/17/2016 3:30 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: =20 Neil, =C2=A0 What size are the throttle body throats ??............=20 Kelly Troyer=20 On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Neil Unger = wrote: =20 Charlie=C2=A0 If your eyes are good enough you can jsu see the threads on= the inlet P port plugs.=C2=A0 They are joined with the clamp to the TB's.= =C2=A0 I Have another close up I will try and find.=C2=A0 Neil =20 On 10/17/2016 2:33 PM, Charlie England wrote: =20 And total size of the email must be less than 200K, if memory serves. Do = you have any image resizing software? =20 Charlie (wanting to see details on those screw-in P-ports) =20 On 10/16/2016 10:26 PM, Neil Unger wrote: =20 Chris,=C2=A0 Only one Pic per email seems to be the go,=C2=A0 Neil =20 On 10/17/2016 2:07 PM, Christian And Tam wrote: =20 No worries Do you have a personal email as I can't seem to post to this fo= rum with pics=20 Cheers =20 Sent from my iPhone=20 On 17 Oct 2016, at 6:34 am, Bobby J. Hughes = wrote: =20 =20 Christian What manifold pressure do you see at idle?=C2=A0 I would love t= o see a few pictures of your FWF.=C2=A0=20 =20 Bobby=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Sent from my iPad=20 On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald wrote: =20 =20 Hi Bobby I went for a single 90mm tb and plenum over the opposite side of= the motor and seems to work well, idles at approx 2150 and happily there. = Could get lower but prop speed is low enough.=20 Cheers Christian =20 On Monday, 17 October 2016, Bobby J. Hughes = wrote: =20 Individual TB's were used so they could be located as close to the block a= s possible for improved idle and throttle response. Idle is still at 18"= =C2=A0 MP cold and a little lower after warm up. The renesis should have l= ittle or no overlap so the single throttle body before the intake manifold = appears to work well. =20 Sale is pending for second buyer. Not sure if engine is staying with the = plane or being removed. =20 Bobby =20 Sent from my iPad =20 > On Oct 16, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > Bobby, > Do you know why he did the three TBs and not a plenum with one TB? > Also I thought I saw where the sale of his plane was pending.=C2=A0 Wha= t is going on there?=C2=A0 Was it sold as a flying plane or did you remove= the engine? > Bill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin e.net] > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:50 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Nei= l Unger > > Mark Steitle experienced sticky slide throttle. He modified it several = times and eventually switched to one butterfly TB per rotor. > > Bobby > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Neil Unger w= rote: >> >> Doug,=C2=A0 Had severe problems with a slide throttle,=C2=A0 went with = butterfly and no problems since.=C2=A0 Neil. >> >> >>> On 10/16/2016 7:07 PM, Doug Lomheim wrote: >>> Hi Neil: >>> >>> I have read where some P-Port attempts have resulted in a =C3=A2=E2= =82=AC=C5=93sticky=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A0 throttle due to suction at certain = power applications, etc.=C2=A0 Do you experience any issues such as that = with your set up? >>> >>> thx. >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/= flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html =20 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/fly= rotary/List.html =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html =20 ------=_Part_30094_692948574.1476743124690 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You could make the= tap.  Or this:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-npt-taps/=3D14n37xc

The= n use this:


Screw= it in until it seals, and then trim the inside.  Cut the outside to l= ength.


On Monday, October 17, 2016 4:59 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:


=20 =20 =20
Charlie,  actually still experimenting.  The housing is = turned on a jig in the lathe as the cost of a thread tap for that size exceeds $2000!! Ouch.  The inner that seals onto the plug was ju= st high temp sealer.  The outer can be sealer or wick in locktite.&= nbsp; The plug is aluminium with a taper that is left rough to turbulate the air. apparently very necessary.
There are many ways to p port, so about to get some scrapped housings to experiment with various methods.  Cheapest and best whatever that turns out to be.   
My second engine has a single TB.  About to fire up so will b= e a ball of knowledge as to what to NOT do shortly.
Attached shows the TB and PSRU. I have put 2.25 runners on  t= o see it it makes a difference. (not shown)  Neil.

On 10/17/2016 11:06 PM, Cha= rlie England wrote:
Hi Neil,

Thanks for the pics, and please keep sharing.

Can you give us a blow-by-blow on the process? Do you simply bore the housing on a mill? Straight threads? How do you seal them? Any special techniques where the port goes through the chrome liner? Thread diameter? ID of the pipe? Aluminum, steel, or stainless?

And are you saying that one of you is running individual TB's, as shown in the pics, and the other has a plenum with single TB? Any noticeable differences in HP, BSFC, idle quality, etc?

My hat's off to y'all; you're doing some really interesting and innovative work!

Charlie

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at= 11:54 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Kelly, on the twin TB they are 50 mm while on the single (cheaper) is 80 mm, comes off a V8.  Neil.<= br>

On 10/17/2016 3:30 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Neil,
  What size are the throttle body throats ??............

Kelly Troyer

On Sun, Oct= 16, 2016 at 10:44 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:
Charlie  If your eyes are good enou= gh you can jsu see the threads on the inlet P port plugs.  They are joined with th= e clamp to the TB's.  I Have another clo= se up I will try and find.  Neil

On 10/17/2016 2:33 PM, Charlie England wrote:
And total size of the email must be less than 200K, if memory serves. Do you have any image resizing software?

Charlie
(wanting to see details on those screw-in P-ports)

On 10/16/2016 10:26 PM, Neil Unger wrote:
Chris,  Only one Pic per em= ail seems to be the go,  Neil

On 10/17/2016 2:07 PM, Christian And Tam wrote:
No worries
Do you have a personal email as I can't seem to post to this forum with pics

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Oct 2016, at 6:34 am, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:

Christian
What manifold pressure do you see at idle?  I would lo= ve to see a few pictures of your FWF. 


Bobby





Sent from my iPad

On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:24 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Bobby
I went for a single 90mm tb and plenum over the opposite side of the motor and seems to work well, idles at approx 2150 and happily there.
Could get lower but prop speed is low enough.

Cheers
Christian

On Monday, 17 October 2016, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Individual TB's were used so they could be located as close to the block as possible for improved idle and throttle response. Idle is still at 18"  MP cold and a little lower after warm up. The renesis should have little or no overlap so the single throttle body before the intake manifold appears to work well.

Sale is pending for second buyer. Not sure if engine is staying with the plane or being removed.

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Bobby,
> Do you know why he did the three TBs and not a plenum with one TB?
> Also I thought I saw where the sale of his plane was pending.  What is going on there?  W= as it sold as a flying plane or did you remove the engine?
> Bill
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin e.net]
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 8:50 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Gearbox and P-Port Renesis Update- for Neil Unger
>
> Mark Steitle experienced sticky slide throttle. He modified it several times and eventually switched to one butterfly TB per rotor.
>
> Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Doug,  Ha= d severe problems with a slide throttle,  went with butterfly and no problems since.  Neil.
>>
>>
>>> On 10/16/2016 7:07 PM, Doug Lomheim wrote:
>>> Hi Neil:
>>>
>>> I have read where some P-Port attempts have resulted in a =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93st= icky=C3=A2=E2=82=AC  throttle due to suction at certain power applications, etc.  Do you experience any issues such as that with your set up?
>>>
>>> thx.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> --
>>> Homepage:  http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
>>> Archive and UnSub:   = http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= br> >>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage: = ; http://www.flyrotary.com/=
>> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> --
> Homepage:  http= ://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http= ://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:  http:= //www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   = http://mail.lancaironline.net :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= br>
<= font color=3D"#888888">






--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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