X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "steve Izett" Received: from mail-pf0-f170.google.com ([209.85.192.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8850309 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 04 Aug 2016 19:13:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.170; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf0-f170.google.com with SMTP id y134so90838203pfg.0 for ; Thu, 04 Aug 2016 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=gZxcsvQVB6xWTYFB5wU5XOdAPN8LKnhrZl8/rNIp5sc=; b=PQJiz1hTmWKUmi07vj1zYEw++jLhxLpfRQcbqhyo4jY4yYUWxL6Uu2kBC5XQ3KxPew g0sSXITpBRfybMh2rSPU+eLoIqLFl+QqExb2PM2ZwX5jn8y27wqWzQYalJ5tBxBC+H3Q JEsTThaO3ITm4PsmcPracx9en9xLpphSSC4NQj3KjOvVrkToNRbEqB+Jo4AFKWT72u20 5iTRLdBv/7vghIHE8lRt8JslCNuRtqok3toIpnZZSCu5LyXnwhhOL3utoAomDcJtniaA ruBjTV98IbJ+2rBsYQKbihQWKlfOboxbiTsWVHqJlc8vEd9SLh44+iilv0kiZe/azaOO yWcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to; bh=gZxcsvQVB6xWTYFB5wU5XOdAPN8LKnhrZl8/rNIp5sc=; b=GyYj5QwoykicsC+HuhqLdLmU3kamkmdA2/nIDR98G5XdKjJG5uKImE3mTyeIoOW9Fe 2kZaA/EM7nTi8zD86C3xqLE8qMvYq1+aMYwG7kUHwnDaCuwtryfAvru8f1ibrI8YlcSM 2IdhwPnFcDE2RQrl6KsxBOOJzUxR4ndBs95A9992lYB6K3sLzCa1ST+AgR2CD82lYUer Wakl+jkBPua2t1GlVfTH/VoV4GmVNVQ50GGvFou0Sl6/UgnHqq3SVzJhcu/kxbIaHH19 p0qXRR3z4KByT14HnPuKyfp0Lkz1CfPGjd8VTMI3VZ2KjhqyULeIKC8mZ6W+ADmKAPQ2 SU0A== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvtE8g+Zmi2C3i+QJ2rGPLksxpPnj5IE0C5v6SspL5QFZ6i9lImXHLM5vXeQt6Q1A== X-Received: by 10.98.68.148 with SMTP id m20mr126965207pfi.0.1470352401340; Thu, 04 Aug 2016 16:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.5] (124-148-241-223.dyn.iinet.net.au. [124.148.241.223]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x184sm22744388pfd.70.2016.08.04.16.13.19 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 04 Aug 2016 16:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B7B7B558-B463-419C-AE9C-03FD2C3E6844" Message-Id: <74805718-44D8-449D-8D97-246AA37EA017@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tuning Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 07:13:20 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) --Apple-Mail=_B7B7B558-B463-419C-AE9C-03FD2C3E6844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Bobby I have the filtering on the coil supply=E2=80=99s. Really appreciate you continuing to think over my issues. I=E2=80=99m at the hangar today and checking a few things: 1. Disconnecting Skyview Engine monitor to check its not messing up = injector #1 switching. 2. Adding a 0.6mm restriction to the MAP signal. Steve > On 5 Aug 2016, at 6:05 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = wrote: >=20 > Yes I was thinking about Steve. I think I'm running the same size Deka = 4 injectors with no issues. I removed the filters when relocated the = coils. They added no value in my installation. =20 >=20 > Bobby > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Aug 4, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Andrew Martin > wrote: >=20 >> Bobby, thanks for the input, but I've never had a problem with rpm. = May have confused me with Steve, he's at about same build stage as me = but lives just down the road in the city. >>=20 >> I think my injectors are big enough for just one to flow enough fuel, = so the duty times need to be pretty low for the set. I've had the filter = on the coils all the time as it was called for in the manual, why did = you remove yours, did they cause a problem? >>=20 >> Andrew >>=20 >> On Thursday, 4 August 2016, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: >> Andrew, >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Did you solve the rpm issue? I=E2=80=99m assuming you upsized the = injectors. How does your B controller run when transmitting? I needed = capacitors on both A&B controllers with the SL30 radio. If the rpm = issues has been corrected and the B controller is not experiencing the = same interference then look at the A controller temperature sensor. At = one time I considered shielded wire for the temperature sensor but never = rewired it. You could also try a filter on the coils. I think it=E2=80=99s= listed as optional in the EC2/3 installation manual. I ran two for a = while (my leading and trailing have independent power sources) but = removed them at some point. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Bobby >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2016 6:09 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Tuning >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Well, after another flight on the weekend looks like I may be getting = oil cooling to a point good enough for sustained flight. but found out = engine tuning can invoke a kaleidoscope of emotions. >>=20 >> Tracy's .1 uF cap fix on the A MAP sensor fixed RFI on the ground, = engine seemed smooth & strong so took another flight. with a really long = taxi to the threshold oil temp climbed to 200, while I was rolling = noticed it dropping so more power & take off. My exhaust is high on the = forward cowl so easily visible during flight, I could see it moving at = about 1-2 pulses/sec (no other cues & probably not noticeable if exhaust = not visible), but assumed engine is missing so decided on a low level = circuit to land. radioed intentions & engine stutters! no more RT. >>=20 >> This had me stuffed so decided to sleep on it for a couple of days to = try and work out why this engine is so scared of flying, and actually = knows when its left the ground. >>=20 >> Here's what I reckon, it=E2=80=99s a combination of an engine that = runs so smooth even when extremely out of tune, that it gives a false = sense to the operator that they know what they are doing, 60lb injectors = & a variable pitch prop.=20 >> I think the engine was just about flooding in flight, a little bit of = RFI, injectors open for just a little bit longer and it goes over the = edge, no proof but will try running really rich and keying the radio = tomorrow before I try to tune the engine. >>=20 >> Most of my previous tuning was with the prop at the lower half of its = pitch range as the prop manual advised against operating the prop on the = ground at coarse pitch. I think this is a big mistake as it don't fly on = fine pitch. So I'm going to start from scratch and do it all again much = coarser. >>=20 >> To get some reference I decided to try and decode the engine info = page on the EM2. Geez that Hex to Decimal conversion is complex. anyway = If I've interpreted it right I'm stunned to find some settings way off = what they should be. >>=20 >> from EC2.A8 manual. >>=20 >> parameter, (row-column),hex,dec >>=20 >> Staging point,(4-3),15,21" >>=20 >> SECDIF,(3-5),34,52 >>=20 >> R1DIF,(3-3),80,128 >>=20 >> R1DIFA,(4-6),80,128 >>=20 >> Ignadv,(4-4),00,0 >>=20 >> Inj Flow,(3-7),6E,110 >>=20 >> I had adjusted Inj flow with mode 3 and really thought I'd cleared = mode 6 when I installed the injectors. the others I really don't know = how they ended up different from defaults. >>=20 >> I did suspect the R1dif as both rotors have 2 egt's, 1 for EM2 & 1 = for efis, strange thing is, EM2 shows R2 as way hotter than R1, efis is = reverse. but anyway, as manual states to leave mode 4 alone until motor = is running perfectly in every other respect, I hadn't touched it. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Tracy, when you got time, I'd really like to know what all the other = numbers relate to on the engine info screen to see if any others are in = error. >>=20 >> Andrew >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Regards >> Andrew Martin >> Martin Ag --Apple-Mail=_B7B7B558-B463-419C-AE9C-03FD2C3E6844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Bobby
I have the filtering on the coil = supply=E2=80=99s.
Really appreciate you continuing = to think over my issues.

I=E2=80=99m at the hangar today and checking a few = things:
1. Disconnecting Skyview Engine monitor to = check its not messing up injector #1 switching.
2. = Adding a 0.6mm restriction to the MAP signal.

Steve




On 5 Aug 2016, at 6:05 AM, = Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Yes I was = thinking about Steve. I think I'm running the same size Deka 4 injectors = with no issues. I removed the filters when relocated the coils. They = added no value in my installation.  

Bobby
Sent from my = iPhone

On Aug 4, 2016, at 4:41 PM, = Andrew Martin <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby, thanks for the input, but I've never had a problem = with rpm. May have confused me with Steve, he's at about same build = stage as me but lives just down the road in the city.

I think my injectors are big enough for = just one to flow enough fuel, so the duty times need to = be pretty low for the set. I've had the filter on the coils = all the time as it was called for in the manual, why did you remove = yours, did they cause a problem?

Andrew

On = Thursday, 4 August 2016, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew,

 

Did you solve the rpm issue? I=E2=80=99m = assuming you upsized the injectors. How does your B controller run when = transmitting? I needed capacitors on both A&B controllers with the = SL30 radio. If the rpm issues has been corrected and the B controller is = not experiencing the same interference then look at the  A = controller temperature sensor.  At one time I considered shielded = wire for the temperature sensor but never rewired it. You could also try = a filter on the coils. I think it=E2=80=99s listed as optional in the = EC2/3 installation manual. I ran two for a while (my leading and = trailing have independent power sources)  but removed them at some = point.

 

<image003.jpg>

 

 

 

 

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: = Thursday, August 04, 2016 6:09 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Tuning

 

Well, after another flight on the weekend = looks like I may be getting oil cooling to a point good enough for = sustained flight. but found out engine tuning can invoke a kaleidoscope = of emotions.

Tracy's .1 uF cap fix = on the A MAP sensor fixed RFI on the ground, engine seemed smooth & = strong so took another flight. with a really long taxi to the threshold = oil temp climbed to 200, while I was rolling noticed it dropping so more = power & take off. My exhaust is high on the forward cowl so easily = visible during flight, I could see it moving at about 1-2 pulses/sec (no = other cues & probably not noticeable if exhaust not visible), but = assumed engine is missing so decided on a low level circuit to land. = radioed intentions & engine stutters!  no more RT.

This had me stuffed so decided to sleep = on it for a couple of days to try and work out why this engine is so = scared of flying, and actually knows when its left the ground.

Here's what I reckon, it=E2=80=99s a = combination of an engine that runs so smooth even when extremely out of = tune, that it gives a false sense to the operator that they know what = they are doing, 60lb injectors & a variable pitch prop.
I think the engine was just about flooding in flight, a = little bit of RFI, injectors open for just a little bit longer and it = goes over the edge, no proof but will try running really rich and keying = the radio tomorrow before I try to tune the engine.

Most of my previous tuning was with the = prop at the lower half of its pitch range as the prop manual advised = against operating the prop on the ground at coarse pitch. I think this = is a big mistake as it don't fly on fine pitch. So I'm going to start = from scratch and do it all again much coarser.

To get some reference I decided to try = and decode the engine info page on the EM2. Geez that Hex to Decimal = conversion is complex. anyway If I've interpreted it right I'm stunned = to find some settings way off what they should be.

from = EC2.A8 manual.

parameter, (row-column),hex,dec

Staging = point,(4-3),15,21"

SECDIF,(3-5),34,52

R1DIF,(3-3),80,128

R1DIFA,(4-6),80,128

Ignadv,(4-4),00,0

Inj Flow,(3-7),6E,110

I had adjusted Inj flow = with mode 3 and really thought I'd cleared mode 6 when I installed the = injectors. the others I really don't know how they ended up different = from defaults.

I did suspect the R1dif as both rotors = have 2 egt's, 1 for EM2 & 1 for efis, strange thing is, EM2 shows R2 = as way hotter than R1, efis is reverse. but anyway, as manual states to = leave mode 4 alone until motor is running perfectly in every other = respect, I hadn't touched it.

 

Tracy, when you got time, I'd really like = to know what all the other numbers relate to on the engine info screen = to see if any others are in error.

Andrew

 

 

<= /div>


--
RegardsAndrew Martin
Martin Ag

= --Apple-Mail=_B7B7B558-B463-419C-AE9C-03FD2C3E6844--