X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Tracy Crook" Received: from mail-oi0-f51.google.com ([209.85.218.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8841777 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 02 Aug 2016 01:26:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.51; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi0-f51.google.com with SMTP id 4so11997472oih.2 for ; Mon, 01 Aug 2016 22:26:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:to; bh=ttd57/VfFbSmfhHDc4/NoU9FU4OZhdy7xQ5P5I59Qm8=; b=iiVPW109xBoIax1FLmS/heuLUK32tozwW1xHgPINEwV8m0SFMDpe002cecENM+uRCF hq9ISlWhGcT4we6IK2cBecVa2RX6wHuhfIVkCwGd+J3Xxeqdi+kdZwzrhGxSc0bro/4n pPhTFc8Kvy3w4YebdwD7sYbG5a2l5Kb4iSCmBEjU0/6Bt46SleqIWv+WzpuRQciNMJDR Ml0aFNyPpbNCk/iVrJQ1th7SOwMLf+o/aNGIM2p5nxePwh3+waAod5USYMpz06iFi3GP 5qyggsyrL2qc+jl5ovvtg9ab5yXM+tDa9li9MM7JAXHiZyQzrMqkULyNJ2eH7TQmL9sw aOhw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=ttd57/VfFbSmfhHDc4/NoU9FU4OZhdy7xQ5P5I59Qm8=; b=GqdONlkXJDo8CnIR0vAJ6VetUpufVLRcPwX4wr7nAyuUnEspHbiY+zPKtQYNrQuG9J PoHxiSWhybt3LF8cZLjodHqsJla1wGMaKsrWHaxmcPRS1GTUVWSfuZex0jFZEo88DeIa +bHbT6MkQ/n9RqLDKvV427iNJ/NYICQujcwuJGF1fT4nrTJ6035nM2+aqp1Ipmf4QWyT VbfqTqu9c9o3C0O0/P2SoWH6i6b623S96T0TIfLCe4KEu2x3wvrSCECQVV0FOnubA6nh IgIjyZ6U0S40bwftQV11akUJyJDqvn9tjVO+oETLTWysDQbQw28uYLs4fGt2F39M8kmy U9JQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouv5QmEcP8/2i6zyVW3gPj2QqVsxu8GqFlCEjOViCfTZeYgiaE69sgbutkwVz1wLcw== X-Received: by 10.157.17.2 with SMTP id g2mr37894547ote.196.1470115595810; Mon, 01 Aug 2016 22:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.1.59] (24-121-13-27.mmlkcmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net. [24.121.13.27]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q129sm446705oia.17.2016.08.01.22.26.32 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Aug 2016 22:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-FB902013-F0B0-4DFE-BAF8-BC38A7FB0352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing Message-Id: <8C15CCE1-A53A-4409-8911-2F2FB534622F@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 22:26:29 -0700 References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPad Mail (13G34) --Apple-Mail-FB902013-F0B0-4DFE-BAF8-BC38A7FB0352 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That reminded me that my Blue Mountain EFIS caused em2/3 tach malfunction wh= en the BM was turned off. Other EFIS might cause similar problems. Tracy Sent from my iPad > On Jul 29, 2016, at 18:59, Stephen Izett wro= te: >=20 > Thanks heaps you guys. > So: > 1. EC2 and CAS signal - the EC2 has got some conditioning on the CAS senso= r inputs done by Tracy so expect this is good and shouldn=E2=80=99t be the p= roblem. Could put the CRO on the inputs to be sure. > 2. Good call Bobby re fault finding process to disconnect the sky view. Ea= sy to unplug the Engine monitor. (should have thought of that, poor process= on my part) > 3. Injectors and Staging. Injectors are standard 4 port Renesis Red and Bl= ue. Blues flow twice as much as Red=E2=80=99s, so staging is delayed till ab= out 19=E2=80=9D as per tracy=E2=80=99s guide.=20 > Parallel Dynon or EM3 Engine Monitor inputs holding injector #1 open? Has= anyone seen this phenomenon? Disconnecting one and then both will isolate t= his as the cause quickly. > 4. I=E2=80=99ll experiment with both a restriction of 0.6mm (Thanks Christ= ian and Lyn) and a perhaps a fuel filter to tame the pulses. > Once again. > Thanks so much for your input. > Steve Izett >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On 30 Jul 2016, at 9:19 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Steve >> I found it would jump all over the place there was no steady reading unti= l I installed the restricter, that was installed atop of my plenum that I ma= de, then I stuck it at the base of the throttle body and I got a little more= accurate readings, but the restricter made all the differance for me the po= or old computer didn't know what to make of it at first and was backfiring a= nd carrying on and couldn't get a steady rpm at all. As soon as I changed th= e position it ran allot better and smooth. >> Now even with 90mm tb and the p port its like a turbine down to 1800rpm, n= ice and smooth >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >>> On Saturday, 30 July 2016, Neil Unger wrot= e: >>> Steve, I did initially install the MAP sensor pipes in the oiling holes= and it was a total failure due to getting both vacuum and pressure in each c= ycle. Changed it back to just under the throttle bodies and all was well. O= il holes definitely not! Neil. >>> =20 >>> From: steve Izett >>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:37 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing >>> =20 >>> Hi Christian >>> What did irregular map signals look like in terms of engine running on y= our engine? >>> What engine/setup do you have? >>> =20 >>> Steve >>>> On 29 Jul 2016, at 7:50 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald wrote: >>>> =20 >>>> Hi Steve >>>> Just my 2 cents, I had irregular map signals so I installed a mig weldi= ng tip for .6 wire and that sorted it out simply for me. >>>> =20 >>>> Cheers >>>> Christian >>>>=20 >>>>> On Friday, 29 July 2016, steve Izett wro= te: >>>>> Hi Guys >>>>>=20 >>>>> We did further testing of the Renesis today. Would really appreciate y= our heads on this. >>>>> Last series of tests we had this major missing and noise which I think= is fuel exploding in the exhaust. >>>>> This happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the adjustabl= e prop. >>>>> With fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before striking= this mayhem. >>>>> With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before the same symptoms. >>>>> =46rom memory these were both at about 22-23 inches of Hg. >>>>> My Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present. >>>>> The narrowband response time appears to slow to discover what the mixt= ure is doing during the episodes. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Also still having trouble with the EM3. Sometimes display reads what a= ppears to be an error message and at other times stops reading RPM. >>>>> The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the same RPM so appea= rs directly related. >>>>> I changed the input on the Skyview to the Standard RPM input as I inco= rrectly fed the injector pulse to the lower voltage input, but this made no d= ifference. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I had wondered if the secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting powe= r and as a consequence when it staged to all 4 injectors the trouble began. >>>>> Using the EM3 display (staging asterisk) and switching power off to th= e secondaries I was able to ascertain that the secondaries appear to be func= tioning fine. >>>>> I did notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid. >>>>> This takes me back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold si= gnal to the EC2. >>>>> Sorry Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because it w= as running so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a signal issue= . >>>>> Maybe the wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the ma= nifold signal tap position! >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ed, you mentioned either small orifice or accumulator. I estimate the v= olume of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic centimetres. >>>>> My gut was that the accumulator required to damp the signal would need= to be an order of magnitude larger. (total guess) >>>>> So maybe 180 cc=E2=80=99s but thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s wa= y to big. >>>>> Ed, did I understand you right that a small fuel filter can do the tri= ck? I thought they would only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume. >>>>> I suppose if the pulses are very narrow/short maybe thats all to takes= to damp out the pulses. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Can I ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and w= hat was the solution that worked best. >>>>> Paul Lamar advocates tapping the signal from the oil injection ports. H= as/is anyone using this solution? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks very much everyone. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve Izett >>>>> Glasair Super II RG >>>>> Reneis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html >=20 --Apple-Mail-FB902013-F0B0-4DFE-BAF8-BC38A7FB0352 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That reminded me that my Blue Mountain= EFIS caused em2/3 tach malfunction when the BM was turned off.  Other E= FIS might cause similar problems.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 29, 2016, at 18:59, Stephen Izet= t <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net> wrote:

Thanks heaps you= guys.
So:
1. EC2 and CAS signal - the E= C2 has got some conditioning on the CAS sensor inputs done by Tracy so expec= t this is good and shouldn=E2=80=99t be the problem. Could put the CRO on th= e inputs to be sure.
2. Good call Bobby re fault findin= g process to disconnect the sky view. Easy to unplug the Engine monitor. &nb= sp;(should have thought of that, poor process on my part)
3. Injectors and Staging. Injectors are standard 4 port Renesis Red and B= lue. Blues flow twice as much as Red=E2=80=99s, so staging is delayed till a= bout 19=E2=80=9D as per tracy=E2=80=99s guide. 
Pa= rallel Dynon or EM3 Engine Monitor inputs holding injector #1 open?  Ha= s anyone seen this phenomenon? Disconnecting one and then both will isolate t= his as the cause quickly.
4. I=E2=80=99ll experiment wi= th both a restriction of 0.6mm (Thanks Christian and Lyn) and a perhaps a fu= el filter to tame the pulses.
Once again.
Thanks so much for your input.
Steve Izett


<= div class=3D"">
On 30 Jul 2016, at 9:19 AM, Christian And T= amara Mcdonald <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Steve
I found it would jump a= ll over the place there was no steady reading until I installed the restrict= er, that was installed atop of my plenum that I made, then I stuck it at the= base of the throttle body and I got a little more accurate readings, but th= e restricter made all the differance for me the poor old computer didn't kno= w what to make of it at first and was backfiring and carrying on and couldn'= t get a steady rpm at all. As soon as I changed the position it ran allot be= tter and smooth.
Now even with 90mm tb and the p port i= ts like a turbine down to 1800rpm, nice and smooth

Cheers

On Satur= day, 30 July 2016, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Steve,  I did initially install the MAP sensor pipes in= the oiling=20 holes and it was a total failure due to getting both vacuum and pressure in e= ach=20 cycle.  Changed it back to just under the throttle bodies and all was=20= well.  Oil holes definitely not!  Neil.
 
From: steve Izett
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:37 PM
=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing
 
Hi=20= Christian=20
What did irregular map signals look like in terms of engine r= unning on your=20 engine?
What engine/setup do you have?
 
Steve
On 29 Jul 2016, at 7:50 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
Hi Steve=20
Just my 2 cents, I had irregular map signals so I installe= d a mig welding=20 tip for .6 wire and that sorted it out simply for me.
 
Cheers
Christian

On Friday, 29 July 2= 016, steve Izett <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
Hi=20 Guys

We did further testing of the Renesis t= oday. Would really=20 appreciate your heads on this.
Last series of tests we had= this major=20 missing and noise which I think is fuel exploding in the exhaust.
This=20 happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the adjustable prop.=
With=20 fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before striking this=20= mayhem.
With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before t= he same=20 symptoms.
=46rom memory these were both at about 22-23 inc= hes of Hg.
My=20 Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present.
The narrowband r= esponse time=20 appears to slow to discover what the mixture is doing during the=20 episodes.

Also still having trouble with th= e EM3. Sometimes display=20 reads what appears to be an error message and at other times stops readi= ng=20 RPM.
The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the s= ame RPM so=20 appears directly related.
I changed the input on the Skyvi= ew to the=20 Standard RPM input as I incorrectly fed the injector pulse to the lower=20= voltage input, but this made no difference.

I had wondered if the=20 secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting power and as a consequence w= hen it=20 staged to all 4 injectors the trouble began.
Using the EM3= display=20 (staging asterisk) and switching power off to the secondaries I was able= to=20 ascertain that the secondaries appear to be functioning fine.
I did=20 notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid.
= This takes me=20 back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold signal to the EC2.=
Sorry=20 Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because it was runn= ing=20 so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a signal issue.
Maybe the=20 wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the manifold signa= l=20 tap position!

Ed, you mentioned either smal= l orifice or accumulator.=20 I estimate the volume of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic=20 centimetres.
My gut was that the accumulator required to d= amp the signal=20 would need to be an order of magnitude larger. (total guess)
So maybe 180=20 cc=E2=80=99s but thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s way to big.
Ed, did I understand=20 you right that a small fuel filter can do the trick? I thought they woul= d=20 only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume.
I suppose if the p= ulses are very=20 narrow/short maybe thats all to takes to damp out the pulses.

Can I=20 ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and what was t= he=20 solution that worked best.
Paul Lamar advocates tapping th= e signal from=20 the oil injection ports. Has/is anyone using this solution?

Thanks=20 very much everyone.

Steve Izett
Glasair Super II RG
Reneis 4=20 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C








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Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net= :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
 

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