X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "William Jepson" Received: from mail-vk0-f54.google.com ([209.85.213.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.9) with ESMTPS id 8574778 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 15:00:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.54; envelope-from=wrjjrs@gmail.com Received: by mail-vk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id t129so82358252vkg.2 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=wq5QBnylzrJx/yanRArq4ZqSBoNwz0xjznsDUaKlj/s=; b=zHoOhXsz8dvM2LAu89ZGyLL2E3f0q0mwySytucAJSIJePU7CCQI0PbsINEQMX8WqZf NQgTZWkLzb3Bnj0L7/qsZ5oBrs9QIWxNPVOcuSWTDDwC8VTbiYGl4iTR13+chhpllnPZ vM3c1noEF7saDesi0uEl4mzaZs2TFb0jhwWdEL9fle4aznxWjeiOsiUyRJMD0gXQjRUd 8Vu0nf1W5BMhr0nf/Zbw5W7LMXl2tbhozQ5bRuceo2ivKGZTpVQq0clD/Q2TCitGngiY r6PgLiapUmqEEFgPzkrzwX4Me72ojBCUb4r7DZ/GBE7149qnMe8HnBLH6KeYy97s8J9U yXLQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=wq5QBnylzrJx/yanRArq4ZqSBoNwz0xjznsDUaKlj/s=; b=cPVJun8i4gI2AdHtpIi9H1vK0+5CiiIH+HeYntj3JPy/8/c2RdtW0mgBVnEUElUSol CZ4Pdqavnyr0VfXM3HfowG3snPGb+CCmjLMA6U26I2Ov09oMpuRBD06fj8Ekx7gU4iwq Ll5njoBVzLUDSe4FOkEM9tOEmBc/ujkse0MEw0NCuBgvKXjlhWSLwslQHS2FH2K62U9m lAeHpUp9kYnWdrDz79TWJs3Cea32EGiYmnP83RVhFThquI08+xQZMhDdgYjnxGiGuNlF UDevyxqzwedA8IuHdHni7QpvUv92JZCeLkvhUeBrbpCJAezAFxTA2hzDPw/QbJ/X8q29 fxFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FV9G7W1x9OBVm+tQzC5Jie9diiawujXPy53urRxgMekFBmrBq/Vc5W1OilJ6yVSPpEP7YKBey5WoOrpjA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.141.2 with SMTP id p2mr5603310vkd.37.1460574018569; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.103.31.21 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:00:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2016 12:00:18 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Update To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114260408b8e3d05306263be --001a114260408b8e3d05306263be Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dave, Using the propane torch is OK. This is all you can do if the parts are still together. It is also a great idea to preheat many parts if possible. (Super important if you do TIG aluminum welding.) Check some of the suggestions in a welding book for the needed temperature. You might need MAAP gas to get the area hot enough. If you do a fully welded engine mount from scratch it is suggested, (if you use 4130 Chr/moly), to heat treat the full assembly. The need can be overstated, since we are in the era of litigation all literature will suggest the max! The thing is the high strength steels are more prone to notch sensitivity and crystallization. I really like the racing books from Carroll Smith. Great advice and practical too. I love his "Engineer to Win" for down to earth engineering advice. Great metallurgical advice. Amazon has all his books. I love my TIG. The only way to weld! Bill Jepson On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:39 AM, David Leonard wrote: > on gosh, that adds another wrinkle... Can I use a generic propane torch? > > Dave Leonard > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:09 PM, William Jepson < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Dave, >> The tig is great. One thing to remember is to anneal the area around >> welds whenever possible. Tig allows you to weld many metals but annealing >> prevents cracking right next to the weld later. If it is a motor mount it >> is a good idea to shot peen as well. >> >> Bill Jepson >> On Apr 12, 2016 5:02 PM, "David Leonard" >> wrote: >> >>> Charlie, >>> Your post below reminded me that I wanted to thank everyone who >>> suggested I get a TIG system rather than some other form of welding >>> set-up. After getting up to speed on the benefits of the different types >>> of welding, it is clear that TIG was the only solution for my needs (most >>> versatile and most appropriate for the lighter gauge metals used in >>> aircraft). After spending a couple weeks learning to not destroy >>> everything I touch with it, I can finally create ugly looking things that >>> would loosely fall into the category of a weld. But is is fun, and great >>> to have the ability to fix a lot of things that were previously thrown out >>> or limped along with JB weld. >>> >>> I have been able to repair cracks in my exhaust system and beef up my >>> 4130 engine mount, not to mention a ton of projects at home. >>> >>> Wish I did it sooner. >>> >>> David Leonard >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Charlie England < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Several years ago, some rotary users tried various flattened exhaust >>>> tips, as seen on a lot of European homebuilts. (Supposed to help with >>>> making exhaust tone less irritating.) IIRC, everyone found that the rotary >>>> would destroy the tips very quickly. Well, while walking through the >>>> Fantasy of Flight museum about a week ago, I noticed these tips on (IIRC) a >>>> P-40. Looks like they maintained a curved shape but were still able to have >>>> the pinched outlet. Don't know if it would actually work with a rotary, but >>>> it should have a better chance than the purely flat tips. >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>>> >>> > --001a114260408b8e3d05306263be Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
Using the propane torch is OK. This is all you c= an do if the parts are still together. It is also a great idea to preheat m= any parts if possible. (Super important if you do TIG aluminum welding.) Ch= eck some of the suggestions in a welding book for the needed temperature. Y= ou might need MAAP gas to get the area hot enough. If you do a fully welded= engine mount from scratch it is suggested, (if you use 4130 Chr/moly), to = heat treat the full assembly. The need can be overstated, since we are in t= he era of litigation all literature will suggest the max! The thing is the = high strength steels are more prone to notch sensitivity and crystallizatio= n. I really like the racing books from Carroll Smith. Great advice and prac= tical too. I love his "Engineer to Win" for down to earth enginee= ring advice. Great metallurgical advice. Amazon has all his books. I love m= y TIG. The only way to weld!
Bill Jepson

On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 11:39 = AM, David Leonard <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wr= ote:
on gosh, =C2=A0that= adds another wrinkle...=C2=A0 Can I use a generic propane torch?

<= /div>
Dave Leonard

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:09 PM, William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Dave,
The tig is great. One thing to remember is to anneal the area around welds = whenever possible. Tig allows you to weld many metals but annealing prevent= s cracking right next to the weld later. If it is a motor mount it is a goo= d idea to shot peen as well.

Bill Jepson

On Apr 12, 2016 5:02 PM, "David Leonard&quo= t; <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Charlie,
Your post below reminded = me that I wanted to thank everyone who suggested I get a TIG system rather = than some other form of welding set-up.=C2=A0 After getting up to speed on = the benefits of the different types of welding, it is clear that TIG was th= e only solution for my needs (most versatile and most appropriate for the l= ighter gauge metals used in aircraft).=C2=A0 After spending a couple weeks = learning to not destroy everything I touch with it, I can finally create ug= ly looking things that would loosely fall into the category of a weld.=C2= =A0 But is is fun, and great to have the ability to fix a lot of things tha= t were previously thrown out or limped along with JB weld.

I have been able to repair cracks in my exhaust system and beef up= my 4130 engine mount, not to mention a ton of projects at home. =C2=A0

Wish I did it sooner.

David = Leonard

On Tue= , Apr 12, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:
Several yea= rs ago, some rotary users tried various flattened exhaust tips, as seen on = a lot of European homebuilts. (Supposed to help with making exhaust tone le= ss irritating.) IIRC, everyone found that the rotary would destroy the tips= very quickly. Well, while walking through the Fantasy of Flight museum abo= ut a week ago, I noticed these tips on (IIRC) a P-40. Looks like they maint= ained a curved shape but were still able to have the pinched outlet. Don= 9;t know if it would actually work with a rotary, but it should have a bett= er chance than the purely flat tips.

Charlie
=
--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html




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