X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "steve Izett" Received: from mail-pa0-f53.google.com ([209.85.220.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8392154 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 23:34:14 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.53; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id kp3so1476589pab.1 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 20:34:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=pqKyO+1bf2zVDzC0FA7nkR2g/30dOOwx5S1OIRCMUjw=; b=sN7w3rQgESrv/9fK0f7p24GioYepT/pR8gvgQd1J7orqlguFjs7SeVYGKeAtn0tDL9 jbbF7jwA4nuV2s10cgEeG052foq+hDYjD4zWT216PN9n6QkaZ807TDn8s9nSLGx1JWig 1bXDB5MNeB4Z0KBY9M3yvFDhZPodH1KC+ct9TcfTGd+U8ZbjTctZ6XaEpIp5EavPMBdp ZK11hRoGx4Uf9m93Ou+wZQDo7bmGNZ9coOq72AsbKFvh3st60LZUQKZm3xhxMi3lqrF/ zitp3YQMV/nJEDx53NYGW8nHfnCALFzM0EIpuKO8AGziZwlrTwKTi9rsxJGDoZ+/F24E EzGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=pqKyO+1bf2zVDzC0FA7nkR2g/30dOOwx5S1OIRCMUjw=; b=OK6oZVSN+AgJVE75LfxdJeh5PZ0issISnE9nAMlomHeNxzwinpbPPkKc6ZlT+JdhYB rKvP9PB9q1mZy0cb2EOw+qpfdrU9PuGQQa6/DaK/VQX4hV4JA2oYrYOn2oL+bofAqggV IREdTyyH+BQmHTvTTIHWJ4Z/eRiEdQSjm1ms2s8Q79jg0SZ0ntw2Lv42ZOEdJaau07nd XqMDdJ7Li0r9H9XyDEL6FEsOwI/BRyeZIiiq2plgAz9ST7BgA4xa681+Tsi3DaDSqvAM aqzDGP3kIfG1A/0p0oQ9hgVNNZyY3CHBV1RFNLOYSwHctW0LhEVo14qQaM/CoOo1s4mn mqgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQndfVne5GLeuS8G861aLHXlmzTaw/xRQQXtjgaHhdIZGRF+mUx2WDats5AYgRTZA== X-Received: by 10.66.150.228 with SMTP id ul4mr47564041pab.15.1454992435480; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 20:33:55 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.13] ([58.108.8.220]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5sm46812957pap.7.2016.02.08.20.33.51 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Feb 2016 20:33:53 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_516D43FD-A536-482C-858B-F25F271E548B" Message-Id: <58FE35D8-38C8-4FFB-9323-EAAEFCED9AF3@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] Re: Testing Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:33:48 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) --Apple-Mail=_516D43FD-A536-482C-858B-F25F271E548B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Rich Phil took over Aerotek and all Bram=E2=80=99s design etc. Steve > On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:13 PM, A R Goldman = wrote: >=20 > Could be >=20 > I actually got my first airmaster when Waters still owned the company. = My understanding is that Martin eckdelson who I believe was the chief = engineer took over the company and ran it as airmaster as a matter of = fact I saw him at his booth this year at OSH. The current airmaster web = site has a picture of him on it. I was unaware that airmaster had sold >=20 > Mine is/was an ap308 with the c/S controller >=20 > Rich >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Feb 8, 2016, at 5:13 PM, Stephen Izett > wrote: >=20 >> Hi Rich >> I think the history is that Bram Waters was behind Airmaster. He then = sold the company before working on a new design under the name Aerotek.=20= >> All Bram=E2=80=99s work at Aerotek was purchased by Phil of = SprintAero. >> My blades are Aerotek in an Airmaster 506 Hub. >> Steve Izett >>=20 >>> On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:29 AM, ARGOLDMAN > wrote: >>>=20 >>> An additional supplier (and one that has been around for at least 15 = years) is >>> Airmaster. They are always at OSH and predated most of the others = available. They are also located in New Zealand >>> =20 >>> I used one on my dragonfly, uses Warp drive blades (3) and I was = very happy with it. It is constant speed) >>> (range about 120HP) I had an adaptor made for the unit in that the = hub is designed for a >>> rotax but the adaptor made it mate with My Norton Rotary (midwest) = well. (I think it was an SAE 1 or 2) >>> It is an AP308. I have it for sale. if anybody is interested send me = an e-mail and I will give them the real skinney. >>> =20 >>> Rich >>> =20 >>> In a message dated 2/7/2016 8:26:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: >>> Hi Charlie >>> I bought the Prop second hand and the company has now been sold. >>> The new company who took over Aerotek is now producing props and = hubs is SprintAero http://www.sprintaero.com = >>>=20 >>> Cheers >>>=20 >>> Steve Izett >>>> On 8 Feb 2016, at 11:48 AM, Charlie England = > = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> I'd love to hear more about the prop. Google couldn't seem to help = me when I searched for it; is there a web site showing the specs? >>>>=20 >>>> Charlie >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 2/7/2016 5:42 PM, Stephen Izett wrote: >>>>> Hi Bobby >>>>> At this stage the prop is not constant speed, just adjustable. >>>>> So I could do I similar thing. Choose an Rpm. >>>>> Why was the 2100 RPM at the prop chosen? Did you determine this to = provide=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be related to inj #1 signal = as the reading goes intermittent and low (from memory ~ 800 RPM) and the = Skyview suffering the same. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 8 Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Steve, >>>>>> Does your prop have a constant speed controller or is it strictly = manual operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric constant = speed controllers have reported an rpm difference between the selected = prop rpm and the actual engine rpm. Mine is very close. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM?- My = EM3 screen sometimes shows the correct rpm and then NOP and alternates = every second or so. Reducing rpm seems to correct the issue. I suspect = it=E2=80=99s noise on the serial circuit. I plan to replace the serial = wiring with shield wire next time I have the panel out. My AFS EM show = correct rpm at all times and it reads the same injector pulse.=20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> One other thought regarding tuning for 7500 rpm. Initially I had = a lot of trouble tuning with the constant speed electric prop. Tracy = recommend I run up full power, adjust the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it in = manual mode and tune at this condition. This made tuning easier since I = wasn=E2=80=99t chasing the changing prop loads. If your prop controller = is manual only then you may not encounter the same difficulties.=20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Bobby >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 9:58 AM >>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Hi Bobby >>>>>> It's an Electric 3 blade Aerotek from New Zealand. >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> On 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Steve, >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> What prop do you have?=20 >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Bobby >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ = mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 4:14 AM >>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Testing >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Hi Guys >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> In order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in = 35+C (95+F) I rigged some water spray onto the water exchanger. >>>>>> Water temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my = surprise Oil temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray = water on the Oil Exchanger but not required) >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> I reduced the pitch of the prop to allow a static rpm of = approaching 7500rpm and without much missing she spun up OK. >>>>>> I feel like Im starting to get familiar with the EC2 now and = between MODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture adjustments she runs from = idle to 7+K alright. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> One observation is that at around 6-7K RPM both the Dynon Skyview = as well as the EM3 fail to read the RPM correctly. >>>>>> Now they are both taking their sensing from Injector 1.=20 >>>>>> The EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis = CAS=E2=80=99s (main and backup) and there is a mod on the back of the = EC2 board that I took was conditioning of the CAS signals. >>>>>> Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM? >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> After balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing = with the EC2=E2=80=99s closed loop mode, and then Timing with new = BR10EIX plugs. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Thanks again Tracy for your gearbox and EC. >>>>>> =20 >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Steve Izett >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> =3D >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_516D43FD-A536-482C-858B-F25F271E548B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Rich
Phil took over Aerotek and all = Bram=E2=80=99s design etc.
Steve

On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:13 PM, A R Goldman <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Could = be

I actually = got my first airmaster when Waters still owned the company. My = understanding is that Martin eckdelson who I believe was the chief = engineer took over the company and ran it as airmaster  as a matter = of fact I saw him at his booth this year at OSH. The current airmaster = web site has a picture of him on it. I was unaware that airmaster had = sold

Mine = is/was an ap308 with the c/S controller

Rich

Sent = from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2016, at = 5:13 PM, Stephen Izett <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Rich
I think the history = is that Bram Waters was behind Airmaster. He then sold the company = before working on a new design under the name Aerotek. 
All Bram=E2=80=99s work at Aerotek was purchased by Phil of = SprintAero.
My blades are Aerotek in an Airmaster = 506 Hub.
Steve Izett

On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:29 AM, ARGOLDMAN <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

An additional supplier (and one that has been around for = at least 15 years)=20 is
Airmaster. They are always at OSH and predated most of = the others=20 available. They are also located in New Zealand
 
I used one on my dragonfly, uses Warp drive blades (3) = and I was very happy=20 with it. It is constant speed)
 (range about 120HP) I had an adaptor made for the = unit in that the=20 hub is designed for a
rotax but the adaptor made it mate with My Norton Rotary = (midwest) well. (I=20 think it was an SAE 1 or 2)
It is an AP308. I have it for sale. if anybody is = interested send me an=20 e-mail and I will give them the real skinney.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 2/7/2016 8:26:37 P.M. Pacific = Standard Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
Hi=20 Charlie=20
I bought the Prop second hand and the company has now = been sold.
The new company who took over Aerotek is now producing = props and hubs is=20 SprintAero http://www.sprintaero.com

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 8 Feb 2016, at 11:48 AM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

I'd love to hear more about the prop. = Google=20 couldn't seem to help me when I searched for it; is there a web site = showing=20 the specs?

Charlie


On 2/7/2016 5:42 PM, Stephen Izett=20 wrote:
Hi Bobby=20
At this stage the prop is not constant speed, just = adjustable.
So I could do I similar thing. Choose an = Rpm.
Why was the 2100 RPM at the prop chosen? Did you = determine this to=20 provide 

Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be related to = inj #1 signal as=20 the reading goes intermittent and low (from memory ~ 800 RPM) and = the=20 Skyview suffering the same.

Steve




On 8 Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Steve,
Does=20= your prop have a constant speed controller or is it strictly = manual=20 operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric constant = speed=20 controllers have reported an rpm difference between the selected = prop=20 rpm and the actual engine rpm. Mine is very=20 close.
 
Has=20 anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM?- My EM3 screen sometimes shows the correct=20 rpm and then NOP and alternates every second or so. Reducing rpm = seems=20 to correct the issue. I suspect it=E2=80=99s noise on the serial = circuit. I plan=20 to replace the serial wiring with shield wire next time I have = the panel=20 out. My AFS EM show correct rpm at all times and it reads the = same=20 injector pulse. 
 
One=20 other thought regarding tuning for 7500 rpm. Initially I had a = lot of=20 trouble tuning with the constant speed electric prop. Tracy = recommend I=20 run up full power,  adjust the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it = in manual=20 mode and tune at this condition. This made tuning easier since I = wasn=E2=80=99t=20 chasing the changing prop loads. If your prop controller is = manual only=20 then you may not encounter the same difficulties. 
 
 
Bobby
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 = 9:58=20 AM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Testing
 
Hi=20 Bobby
It's=20 an Electric  3 blade Aerotek from New=20 Zealand.
Steve
 
 
 
 
On=20 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20= wrote:
 
Steve,
 
What=20 prop do you have? 
 
Bobby
 
From: Rotary motors=20 in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline= .net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016=20= 4:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary]=20 Testing
 
Hi=20 Guys
 
In=20 order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in = 35+C (95+F)=20 I rigged some water spray onto the water=20 exchanger.
Water=20 temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my = surprise Oil=20 temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray water = on the=20 Oil Exchanger but not required)
 
I=20 reduced the pitch of the prop to allow a static rpm of = approaching=20 7500rpm and without much missing she spun up=20 OK.
I=20 feel like Im starting to get familiar with the EC2 now and = between=20 MODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture adjustments she runs from = idle to=20 7+K alright.
 
One=20 observation is that at around 6-7K RPM both the Dynon Skyview = as well=20 as the EM3 fail to read the RPM=20 correctly.
Now=20 they are both taking their sensing from Injector=20 1. 
The=20 EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis CAS=E2=80= =99s (main and=20 backup) and there is a mod on the back of the EC2 board that I = took=20 was conditioning of the CAS signals.
Has=20 anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high=20 RPM?
 
After=20 balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing = with the EC2=E2=80=99s=20 closed loop mode, and then Timing with new BR10EIX=20 plugs.
 
Thanks again=20 Tracy for your gearbox and EC.
 
Cheers
Steve=20 = Izett
<= /blockquote>



=3D


= --Apple-Mail=_516D43FD-A536-482C-858B-F25F271E548B--