X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "A R Goldman" Received: from oms-m006e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8392105 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 23:13:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.103; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com Received: from omr-m003e.mx.aol.com (omr-m003.mx.aol.com [10.74.126.131]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by oms-m006e.mx.aol.com (AOL Outbound OMS Interface) with ESMTPS id 9FAE938001F6 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 23:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.109]) by omr-m003e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 8F8CB3800054 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 23:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.0.0.19] (c-67-167-230-135.hsd1.il.comcast.net [67.167.230.135]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPSA id 272C438000091 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 23:13:12 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-FCE34441-9A85-4404-B03F-7390B143F36B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] Re: Testing Message-Id: <8B9C8C04-2D2E-4CBB-A061-4814B71879B0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 22:13:09 -0600 References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13D15) x-aol-global-disposition: S X-SPAM-FLAG: YES DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1454991192; bh=FM7KYj6tLGSUNa0MBbyHUWuGnTQM+FQRwIzMG2KCIoM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Mime-Version:Content-Type; b=hPl476Rl4B7Dhwp2izC1+up/jugdVmHpr16dmljY+sjaMHH6XYH1D0YDOrz09ti7S aMQ8qlqBGj7AUtaa0XLms64hTh4f/TSobvNibKEbWiYtoCOah4TvDGICMw6XR4IRz0 5RRrfO9Uvi70WvI+S14sGdccg+zkb13HUqVqGZww= X-AOL-REROUTE: YES x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe6d56b9675835d7 X-AOL-IP: 67.167.230.135 --Apple-Mail-FCE34441-9A85-4404-B03F-7390B143F36B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could be I actually got my first airmaster when Waters still owned the company. My un= derstanding is that Martin eckdelson who I believe was the chief engineer to= ok over the company and ran it as airmaster as a matter of fact I saw him a= t his booth this year at OSH. The current airmaster web site has a picture o= f him on it. I was unaware that airmaster had sold Mine is/was an ap308 with the c/S controller Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 8, 2016, at 5:13 PM, Stephen Izett wr= ote: >=20 > Hi Rich > I think the history is that Bram Waters was behind Airmaster. He then sold= the company before working on a new design under the name Aerotek.=20 > All Bram=E2=80=99s work at Aerotek was purchased by Phil of SprintAero. > My blades are Aerotek in an Airmaster 506 Hub. > Steve Izett >=20 >> On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:29 AM, ARGOLDMAN wrote= : >>=20 >> An additional supplier (and one that has been around for at least 15 year= s) is >> Airmaster. They are always at OSH and predated most of the others availab= le. They are also located in New Zealand >> =20 >> I used one on my dragonfly, uses Warp drive blades (3) and I was very hap= py with it. It is constant speed) >> (range about 120HP) I had an adaptor made for the unit in that the hub i= s designed for a >> rotax but the adaptor made it mate with My Norton Rotary (midwest) well. (= I think it was an SAE 1 or 2) >> It is an AP308. I have it for sale. if anybody is interested send me an e= -mail and I will give them the real skinney. >> =20 >> Rich >> =20 >> In a message dated 2/7/2016 8:26:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, flyrotary= @lancaironline.net writes: >> Hi Charlie >> I bought the Prop second hand and the company has now been sold. >> The new company who took over Aerotek is now producing props and hubs is S= printAero http://www.sprintaero.com >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Steve Izett >>> On 8 Feb 2016, at 11:48 AM, Charlie England wrote: >>>=20 >>> I'd love to hear more about the prop. Google couldn't seem to help me wh= en I searched for it; is there a web site showing the specs? >>>=20 >>> Charlie >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 2/7/2016 5:42 PM, Stephen Izett wrote: >>>> Hi Bobby >>>> At this stage the prop is not constant speed, just adjustable. >>>> So I could do I similar thing. Choose an Rpm. >>>> Why was the 2100 RPM at the prop chosen? Did you determine this to prov= ide=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be related to inj #1 signal as the= reading goes intermittent and low (from memory ~ 800 RPM) and the Skyview s= uffering the same. >>>>=20 >>>> Steve >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On 8 Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Steve, >>>>> Does your prop have a constant speed controller or is it strictly manu= al operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric constant speed con= trollers have reported an rpm difference between the selected prop rpm and t= he actual engine rpm. Mine is very close. >>>>> =20 >>>>> Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM?- My EM3 s= creen sometimes shows the correct rpm and then NOP and alternates every seco= nd or so. Reducing rpm seems to correct the issue. I suspect it=E2=80=99s no= ise on the serial circuit. I plan to replace the serial wiring with shield w= ire next time I have the panel out. My AFS EM show correct rpm at all times a= nd it reads the same injector pulse.=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> One other thought regarding tuning for 7500 rpm. Initially I had a lot= of trouble tuning with the constant speed electric prop. Tracy recommend I r= un up full power, adjust the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it in manual mode and t= une at this condition. This made tuning easier since I wasn=E2=80=99t chasin= g the changing prop loads. If your prop controller is manual only then you m= ay not encounter the same difficulties.=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> Bobby >>>>> =20 >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20= >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 9:58 AM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing >>>>> =20 >>>>> Hi Bobby >>>>> It's an Electric 3 blade Aerotek from New Zealand. >>>>> Steve >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> On 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >>>>> =20 >>>>> Steve, >>>>> =20 >>>>> What prop do you have?=20 >>>>> =20 >>>>> Bobby >>>>> =20 >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20= >>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 4:14 AM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Testing >>>>> =20 >>>>> Hi Guys >>>>> =20 >>>>> In order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in 35+C (95= +F) I rigged some water spray onto the water exchanger. >>>>> Water temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my surprise O= il temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray water on the Oil= Exchanger but not required) >>>>> =20 >>>>> I reduced the pitch of the prop to allow a static rpm of approaching 7= 500rpm and without much missing she spun up OK. >>>>> I feel like Im starting to get familiar with the EC2 now and between M= ODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture adjustments she runs from idle to 7+K al= right. >>>>> =20 >>>>> One observation is that at around 6-7K RPM both the Dynon Skyview as w= ell as the EM3 fail to read the RPM correctly. >>>>> Now they are both taking their sensing from Injector 1.=20 >>>>> The EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis CAS=E2=80=99= s (main and backup) and there is a mod on the back of the EC2 board that I t= ook was conditioning of the CAS signals. >>>>> Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM? >>>>> =20 >>>>> After balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing with the= EC2=E2=80=99s closed loop mode, and then Timing with new BR10EIX plugs. >>>>> =20 >>>>> Thanks again Tracy for your gearbox and EC. >>>>> =20 >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Steve Izett >>=20 >> =3D >=20 --Apple-Mail-FCE34441-9A85-4404-B03F-7390B143F36B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could be

I actually got my first airm= aster when Waters still owned the company. My understanding is that Martin e= ckdelson who I believe was the chief engineer took over the company and ran i= t as airmaster  as a matter of fact I saw him at his booth this year at= OSH. The current airmaster web site has a picture of him on it. I was unawa= re that airmaster had sold

Mine is/was an ap308 with the c/S controller

Ri= ch

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 8, 2016, at 5:13 PM, Step= hen Izett <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:

Hi Rich<= div class=3D"">I think the history is that Bram Waters was behind Airmaster.= He then sold the company before working on a new design under the name Aero= tek. 
All Bram=E2=80=99s work at Aerotek was purch= ased by Phil of SprintAero.
My blades are Aerotek in an= Airmaster 506 Hub.
Steve Izett
On 9 Feb 2016, at 12:29 AM, ARGOLDMAN <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:

An additional supplier (and one that has been around for at l= east 15 years)=20 is
Airmaster. They are always at OSH and predated most of the o= thers=20 available. They are also located in New Zealand
 
I used one on my dragonfly, uses Warp drive blades (3) and I= was very happy=20 with it. It is constant speed)
 (range about 120HP) I had an adaptor made for the unit= in that the=20 hub is designed for a
rotax but the adaptor made it mate with My Norton Rotary (mi= dwest) well. (I=20 think it was an SAE 1 or 2)
It is an AP308. I have it for sale. if anybody is interested= send me an=20 e-mail and I will give them the real skinney.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 2/7/2016 8:26:37 P.M. Pacific Standard Ti= me,=20 flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net writes:
Hi=20 Charlie=20
I bought the Prop second hand and the company has now been= sold.
The new company who took over Aerotek is now producing pro= ps and hubs is=20 SprintAero http://www.sprintaero.com

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 8 Feb 2016, at 11:48 AM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

I'd love to hear more about the prop. Goo= gle=20 couldn't seem to help me when I searched for it; is there a web site sho= wing=20 the specs?

Charlie


On 2/7/2016 5:42 PM, Stephen Izett=20 wrote:
Hi Bobby=20
At this stage the prop is not constant speed, just adj= ustable.
So I could do I similar thing. Choose an Rpm.
Why was the 2100 RPM at the prop chosen? Did you deter= mine this to=20 provide 

Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be related to inj= #1 signal as=20 the reading goes intermittent and low (from memory ~ 800 RPM) and the=20= Skyview suffering the same.

Steve




On 8 Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

Steve,
Does=20 your prop have a constant speed controller or is it strictly manual=20= operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric constant spee= d=20 controllers have reported an rpm difference between the selected pro= p=20 rpm and the actual engine rpm. Mine is very=20 close.
 
Has=20 anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM?- My EM3 screen sometimes shows the correct=20 rpm and then NOP and alternates every second or so. Reducing rpm see= ms=20 to correct the issue. I suspect it=E2=80=99s noise on the serial cir= cuit. I plan=20 to replace the serial wiring with shield wire next time I have the p= anel=20 out. My AFS EM show correct rpm at all times and it reads the same=20= injector pulse. 
 
One=20 other thought regarding tuning for 7500 rpm. Initially I had a lot o= f=20 trouble tuning with the constant speed electric prop. Tracy recommen= d I=20 run up full power,  adjust the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it in ma= nual=20 mode and tune at this condition. This made tuning easier since I was= n=E2=80=99t=20 chasing the changing prop loads. If your prop controller is manual o= nly=20 then you may not encounter the same difficulties. 
 
 
Bobby
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 9:58=20 AM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Testing
 
Hi=20 Bobby
It's=20 an Electric  3 blade Aerotek from New=20 Zealand.
Steve
 
 
 
 
On=20 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D"">Steve,
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D""> 
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D"">What=20 prop do you have? 
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D""> 
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D"">Bobby
<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(= 31,73,125)" class=3D""> 
From: = ;Rotary motors=20 in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent:<= /b> Saturday, February 06,= 2016=20 4:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary]=20 Testing
&= nbsp;
H= i=20 Guys
 
In=20 order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in 35+C (9= 5+F)=20 I rigged some water spray onto the water=20 exchanger.
Water=20 temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my surprise Oi= l=20 temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray water on t= he=20 Oil Exchanger but not required)
<= /div>
 
I=20 reduced the pitch of the prop to allow a static rpm of approaching= =20 7500rpm and without much missing she spun up=20 OK.
I=20 feel like Im starting to get familiar with the EC2 now and between= =20 MODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture adjustments she runs from idl= e to=20 7+K alright.
 
One=20 observation is that at around 6-7K RPM both the Dynon Skyview as w= ell=20 as the EM3 fail to read the RPM=20 correctly.
Now=20 they are both taking their sensing from Injector=20 1. 
The=20 EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis CAS=E2=80=99= s (main and=20 backup) and there is a mod on the back of the EC2 board that I too= k=20 was conditioning of the CAS signals.
Has=20 anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high=20 RPM?
 
After=20 balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing with = the EC2=E2=80=99s=20 closed loop mode, and then Timing with new BR10EIX=20 plugs.
 
Thanks again=20 Tracy for your gearbox and EC.
<= /div>
 
Cheers
Steve=20 Izett


<= /div>

=3D

= --Apple-Mail-FCE34441-9A85-4404-B03F-7390B143F36B--