X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.220.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8391399 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 15:57:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.54; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ho8so79197897pac.2 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:57:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=ab/UDjcZRsk6STGx/OCrpQG6c29/T90rmz7TBG2eTxw=; b=paoOwtfPB2TPYffgDiQZLQfPxpbyVNrAgerCWKs3cq6F4ZroZdKVqUMijqxpIvBdUk fX/aNUTj0yNvwQ07rhipKlotB1DOMbKYoGQnCs1x8EAvW9wfNt3cRb2Ko4r0fl8bSFLE 34FuTY5/xz4cv6gdWUZlxQuLTCJ7yLnWZVNtmBEUez+HsI8IwljYrXc3bTjiV5/FyN/p Wphrw8Ij87Eva0U3cCJtsMy73or50C4sAszqfp3kRSvteUbM8kmvuKMNHMemSBUvjFZc MpuCNJkTPULFfJNVo1Ek/WPov7JNH1FXwRIqsBtNtkgg1Bc3Nn+BImzQgv/LUj7BKifm m5fw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=ab/UDjcZRsk6STGx/OCrpQG6c29/T90rmz7TBG2eTxw=; b=nEB2uyPyUGxw8cnKfeibI2HdFOkajDpW/DRS7MwcBqgIJNd4h1AVgJc8iypZU3rrNE e+nyymQGgVZ5zxIoBipvxXBGM9YV354wrNSaxLZIi3ygWA9clQWFg2tRcXF67ZXPXBS0 RPqDJMvwmlSx6oPfBUN48ee3Zxb71IllgV4aH3zzkV5uV1M89CPnM2ItxmSepXHPVYar H6VIwkAq5k3otrg3n+Q2JrQn6kYQYRjpuCV7onVYGwmfRofC5FeAk6hFJMWM+BYB98IT Y8o0C8mCIK7OJmmQ/HJ7A7SWlBnfi2uNELIQwSbySjAwy8Ij5P8HubQXUPufvRqctzcG d+mA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQqLXLS0IVX0DlCUtX9be40/kIEBHIXgnnAv5hxDlQ6euc5st5jqfauXu17XmwSsA== X-Received: by 10.66.122.8 with SMTP id lo8mr45924377pab.35.1454965015775; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:56:55 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.5] (125-209-177-208.dyn.iinet.net.au. [125.209.177.208]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n4sm45491422pfi.3.2016.02.08.12.56.51 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:56:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0A35F152-59FD-4802-93E2-C6B8916D6F25" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] Re: Testing Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 04:56:48 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) --Apple-Mail=_0A35F152-59FD-4802-93E2-C6B8916D6F25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bobby EM3 DAM talks to EC2/3 via ttl RS232 serial EM3 DAM talks to EM3 Head/Display via SPI serial Both serial, just serial of a different kind! Steve > On 8 Feb 2016, at 10:27 PM, Bobby J. Hughes = wrote: >=20 > Bad memory. The EC3 display connection to the remote Data Acquisition = Module is not serial. The serial connection is between the Data = Acquisition Module and the EC3.=20 > =20 > TB4-1 OAT BIAS BLACK LEAD ON OAT SENSOR > TB4-2 LYC. TACH P-LEAD ON MAG (Lycoming only, no ec3 = controller) > TB4-3 TACH & FUEL FLOW SENSE FUEL INJECTOR 1 LEAD ON EC3 & FUEL = INJECTOR > TB4-4 SERIAL DATA IN SERIAL OUT FROM EC3(J2-13) or = EC2(J1-7) > TB4-5 N/C > TB4-6 N/C > TB4-7 GROUND GROUND ON AIRFRAME NEAR AQM > TB4-8 +12 POWER AVIONICS POWER BUS (SWITCHED) > TB4-9 VOLTAGE SENSE MAIN POWER BUS (TO SENSE SYSTEM = VOLTAGE) > TB4-10 SERIAL DATA OUT SERIAL IN TO EC3(J2-12) or EC2(J1-27) =20= > TB4-11 N/C > TB4-12 DISP DATA OUT PIN 5 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR J1 > TB4-13 Vss/GROUND PIN 17 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR J1 > TB4-14 DISP DATA IN PIN 7 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR J1 > TB4-15 DISP DATA CLOCK PIN 6 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR J1 > TB4-16 +5 POWER FOR OAT SENSOR RED WIRE ON OAT SENSOR > =20 > =20 > =20 > Bobby > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 9:08 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] Re: Testing > =20 > Hi Bobby > I can easily disconnect the dynon and test, so I=E2=80=99ll try this. > I think I used the Dynon low voltage RPM input and I might change it = to the Standard Input. > I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand your last sentence. Are you = referring to the EM3 Data Acquisition Modules count of Inj #1 used for = Tach and Fuel Flow calc. > Steve > On 8 Feb 2016, at 8:36 PM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: > =20 > Steve, > =20 > Have you tried disconnecting the Dynon Tac signal lead from the = injector pulse to see if the EC3 reads correctly? Since both units are = showing the same rpm it=E2=80=99s possible the injector is being held = open by the Dynon. See Bill Schertz post from 2012. > Since the only connection between the EM3 screen and remote is serial = then I would assume the rpm pulse count is correct.=20 > =20 > Bill=E2=80=99s post > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe reason that I asked the question about idle on the = secondary injectors is that when I first started the engine, with a Blue = Mountain EFIS, I found that the engine ran very rich on the primaries, = which were preferred by the EC-2 at idle, but when I switched to the = secondary injectors the engine smoothed out. This led to the = investigation of why, since all my injectors were the same size. I then = found the problem with the BMA tach signal holding an injector open (or = causing it to close slowly) that was fixed with Tracy=E2=80=99s = recommendation of a 2K resistor in the line to limit the current draw = from the BMA. =20 > =20 > =20 > Bobby > =20 > =20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 6:42 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] Re: Testing > =20 > Hi Bobby > At this stage the prop is not constant speed, just adjustable. > So I could do I similar thing. Choose an Rpm. > Why was the 2100 RPM at the prop chosen? Did you determine this to = provide=20 > =20 > Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be related to inj #1 signal as = the reading goes intermittent and low (from memory ~ 800 RPM) and the = Skyview suffering the same. > =20 > Steve > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > On 8 Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: > =20 > Steve, > Does your prop have a constant speed controller or is it strictly = manual operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric constant = speed controllers have reported an rpm difference between the selected = prop rpm and the actual engine rpm. Mine is very close. > =20 > Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM?- My EM3 = screen sometimes shows the correct rpm and then NOP and alternates every = second or so. Reducing rpm seems to correct the issue. I suspect it=E2=80=99= s noise on the serial circuit. I plan to replace the serial wiring with = shield wire next time I have the panel out. My AFS EM show correct rpm = at all times and it reads the same injector pulse.=20 > =20 > One other thought regarding tuning for 7500 rpm. Initially I had a lot = of trouble tuning with the constant speed electric prop. Tracy recommend = I run up full power, adjust the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it in manual = mode and tune at this condition. This made tuning easier since I = wasn=E2=80=99t chasing the changing prop loads. If your prop controller = is manual only then you may not encounter the same difficulties.=20 > =20 > =20 > Bobby > =20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 9:58 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing > =20 > Hi Bobby > It's an Electric 3 blade Aerotek from New Zealand. > Steve > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > On 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. Hughes = > = wrote: > =20 > Steve, > =20 > What prop do you have?=20 > =20 > Bobby > =20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 4:14 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Testing > =20 > Hi Guys > =20 > In order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in 35+C = (95+F) I rigged some water spray onto the water exchanger. > Water temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my surprise = Oil temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray water on = the Oil Exchanger but not required) > =20 > I reduced the pitch of the prop to allow a static rpm of approaching = 7500rpm and without much missing she spun up OK. > I feel like Im starting to get familiar with the EC2 now and between = MODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture adjustments she runs from idle to = 7+K alright. > =20 > One observation is that at around 6-7K RPM both the Dynon Skyview as = well as the EM3 fail to read the RPM correctly. > Now they are both taking their sensing from Injector 1.=20 > The EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis CAS=E2=80=99s= (main and backup) and there is a mod on the back of the EC2 board that = I took was conditioning of the CAS signals. > Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high RPM? > =20 > After balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing with the = EC2=E2=80=99s closed loop mode, and then Timing with new BR10EIX plugs. > =20 > Thanks again Tracy for your gearbox and EC. > =20 > Cheers > Steve Izett --Apple-Mail=_0A35F152-59FD-4802-93E2-C6B8916D6F25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Bobby
EM3 DAM talks to EC2/3 via ttl RS232 = serial
EM3 DAM talks to EM3 Head/Display via SPI = serial
Both serial, just serial of a different = kind!
Steve

On = 8 Feb 2016, at 10:27 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bad= memory. The EC3 display connection to the remote Data Acquisition = Module is not serial. The serial connection is between the Data = Acquisition Module and the EC3. 
 
TB4-1      OAT BIAS =             BLACK = LEAD ON OAT SENSOR
TB4-2      LYC. = TACH            = P-LEAD ON MAG  (Lycoming only, no ec3 controller)
TB4-3      TACH & FUEL = FLOW SENSE  FUEL INJECTOR 1 LEAD ON EC3 & FUEL = INJECTOR
TB4-4      SERIAL DATA IN =       SERIAL OUT FROM EC3(J2-13) or = EC2(J1-7)
TB4-5      N/C
TB4-6      N/C
TB4-7      GROUND   =             = GROUND ON AIRFRAME NEAR AQM
TB4-8      +12 = POWER            = AVIONICS POWER BUS (SWITCHED)
TB4-9      VOLTAGE SENSE =        MAIN POWER BUS  (TO SENSE = SYSTEM VOLTAGE)
TB4-10     SERIAL DATA = OUT      SERIAL IN TO EC3(J2-12) or = EC2(J1-27)  
TB4-11     = N/C
TB4-12     DISP DATA = OUT        PIN 5 ON EM3 DISPLAY = CONNECTOR  J1
TB4-13     = Vss/GROUND           = PIN 17 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR J1
TB4-14     DISP DATA = IN         PIN 7 ON EM3 DISPLAY = CONNECTOR  J1
TB4-15     DISP DATA = CLOCK      PIN 6 ON EM3 DISPLAY CONNECTOR  = J1
TB4-16=      +5 POWER FOR OAT SENSOR RED WIRE ON OAT = SENSOR
 
 
 
Bobby
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 = 9:08 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] = Re: Testing
 
Hi Bobby
I can easily = disconnect the dynon and test, so I=E2=80=99ll try this.
I think I used the Dynon low voltage RPM input and I might = change it to the Standard Input.
I=E2=80=99m not sure = I understand your last sentence. Are you referring to the EM3 Data = Acquisition Modules count of Inj #1 used for Tach and Fuel Flow = calc.
Steve
On 8 = Feb 2016, at 8:36 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 
Steve,
 
Have you tried = disconnecting the Dynon Tac signal lead from the injector pulse to see = if the EC3 reads correctly? Since both units are showing the same rpm = it=E2=80=99s possible the injector is being held open by the Dynon. See = Bill Schertz post from 2012.
Since the only connection between the EM3 = screen and remote is serial then I would assume the rpm pulse count is = correct. 
 
Bill=E2=80=99s = post
 
=E2=80=9CThe reason that I = asked the question about idle on the secondary injectors is that when I = first started the engine, with a Blue Mountain EFIS, I found that the = engine ran very rich on the primaries, which were preferred by the EC-2 = at idle, but when I switched to the secondary injectors the engine = smoothed out. This led to the investigation of why, since all my = injectors were the same size. I then found the problem with the BMA tach = signal holding an injector open (or causing it to close slowly) that was = fixed with Tracy=E2=80=99s recommendation of a 2K resistor in the line = to limit the current draw from the BMA.  
 
 
Bobby
 
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 = 6:42 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Flyrotary] = Re: Testing
 
Hi Bobby
At this stage the = prop is not constant speed, just adjustable.
So I could do I similar thing. Choose an = Rpm.
Why was the 2100 RPM = at the prop chosen? Did you determine this to provide 
 
Our EM3 RPM reading issue appears to be = related to inj #1 signal as the reading goes intermittent and low (from = memory ~ 800 RPM) and the Skyview suffering the same.
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
On 8 = Feb 2016, at 3:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 
Steve,
Does your prop have a constant speed controller or is it = strictly manual operated? One or possibly two folks flying MT electric = constant speed controllers have reported an rpm difference between the = selected prop rpm and the actual engine rpm. Mine is very = close.
 
Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm = incorrectly at high RPM?- My EM3 screen sometimes shows the correct = rpm and then NOP and alternates every second or so. Reducing rpm seems = to correct the issue. I suspect it=E2=80=99s noise on the serial = circuit. I plan to replace the serial wiring with shield wire next time = I have the panel out. My AFS EM show correct rpm at all times and it = reads the same injector pulse. 
 
One other thought regarding tuning for = 7500 rpm. Initially I had a lot of trouble tuning with the constant = speed electric prop. Tracy recommend I run up full power,  adjust = the prop for 2100 rpm, lock it in manual mode and tune at this = condition. This made tuning easier since I wasn=E2=80=99t chasing the = changing prop loads. If your prop controller is manual only then you may = not encounter the same difficulties. 
 
 
Bobby
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 = 9:58 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Testing
 
Hi = Bobby
It's = an Electric  3 blade Aerotek from New Zealand.
Steve
 
 
 
 
On 7 Feb 2016, at 10:31 PM, Bobby J. = Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
 
Steve,
 
What prop do you have? 
 
Bobby
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 = 4:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Testing
 
Hi Guys
 
In order to extend ground testing and tuning of the engine in = 35+C (95+F) I rigged some water spray onto the water exchanger.
Water temps now stay below 150F even at high load, and to my = surprise Oil temps stayed below 180F (I thought I might have to spray = water on the Oil Exchanger but not required)
 
I reduced the pitch of the prop to allow = a static rpm of approaching 7500rpm and without much missing she spun up = OK.
I feel like Im starting to get familiar = with the EC2 now and between MODE 2 and 3 and just manual mixture = adjustments she runs from idle to 7+K alright.
 
One observation is that at around 6-7K = RPM both the Dynon Skyview as well as the EM3 fail to read the RPM = correctly.
Now they are both taking their sensing = from Injector 1. 
The EC2 of course gets its trigger signal from the Renesis = CAS=E2=80=99s (main and backup) and there is a mod on the back of the = EC2 board that I took was conditioning of the CAS signals.
Has anyone else had the EM3 read rpm incorrectly at high = RPM?
 
After balancing our prop, I=E2=80=99m hoping to begin playing = with the EC2=E2=80=99s closed loop mode, and then Timing with = new BR10EIX plugs.
 
Thanks again Tracy for your gearbox and = EC.
 
Cheers
Steve = Izett
<= /div>
<= /blockquote>
= --Apple-Mail=_0A35F152-59FD-4802-93E2-C6B8916D6F25--