X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ed Anderson" Received: from [107.14.166.229] (HELO cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTP id 7873094 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:43:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=107.14.166.229; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: Received: from [71.75.143.5] ([71.75.143.5:57757] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id AF/0B-29898-ACD38B55; Wed, 29 Jul 2015 02:43:22 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:43:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01D0C986.CEE13250" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.142:25 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01D0C986.CEE13250 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_001C_01D0C986.CEE13250" ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01D0C986.CEE13250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Staying busy and getting older, Bill. =20 For everyone's information, Sam Hodges flew his very nice looking = Renesis powered RV-7 to Oshkosh this year. Some of you met Sam at the = Paducah fly in back a =E2=80=9Cfew=E2=80=9D years ago. I guess lack of = any rotary forums made it difficult for Rotor heads to find each other = in that crowd. Me, I=E2=80=99m still selling an occasional EFISM, but mainly focused on = a new version of the EI Commander, my ignition monitor and controller = developed for the popular electronic ignition =E2=80=93 the Pmags. New = version has a much larger screen 2.4=E2=80=9D vs 1.5=E2=80=9D and I am = currently working on a Knock Sensor feature for the Lycoming crowd. = Some fairly recent developments in Knock sensors and processors makes it = appear that this may be doable. IF it works out, the Lycoming crowd = could safely run more ignition advance than they currently do saving = some on few and adding power =E2=80=93 IF it works out. In any case, the research and work keeps the old brain from locking up. But, I do miss being a more active part of the rotary community = =E2=80=93 my heart sort of got broken when Mazda decided not to make the = new 16X rotary. I already had my pennies saved up to buy a crate engine = =E2=80=93 ah, well. I do have continue to monitor and enjoy the list =E2=80=93 keep it going Best Regards Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com : [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Dang! Two guys we haven=E2=80=99t heard from in a long time coming out = of the woodwork at the same time! =20 Lynn and Ed! What has been going on with you guys lately? =20 Bill=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 12:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 The Ross unit had no thrust bearings and used the engines thrust = bearings for that function. OK on most engines where plain bearings = control thrust but in the rotary small needles do that and cannot = survive long. Tracy's units have a thrust set installed. Ross units built after the principal died had suspect = quality............. =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: Hi Bill, =20 I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun = gear was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross = units was a problem. =20 By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than = mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s = and never had a problem. Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum = area nickel plated for corriosion and appearance. They erroneously = coated the inside of tunnel for the shaft area of the nose part = reducing the area for oil flow. Went out one morning and noticed that = it was hard to pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated = a few degrees and just stopped. Fortunately, I desisted at that point = and stopped. Got out and found the prop frozen. Took it off and = shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft = tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it. Love it! =20 Ed =20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in = contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C? What was the problem with the Ross if you know? Bill=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6=20 The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear set: read for yourself = =E2=80=A6 http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html Jeff From: Bill Bradburry =20 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 =20 To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' = =20 =20 =20 =20 Jeff, If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive = on his RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own = drive. It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that = extent! :>) Bill=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 = which may have lead to the prop shaft fracturing? =20 I can=E2=80=99t vouch for the =E2=80=9CMarcotte Drive=E2=80=9D but = Ross Parnham (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) = uses the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite = prop. The website shows a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to = a 13B =E2=80=A6 http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html Jeff =20 From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of = this a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly = up". =20 Sent from my iPad On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann = wrote: That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 =20 = http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA5= 12&rpt=3Dfi =20 From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot = when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a = hotel building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in = at Ed's place in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a = turbo-charged LS1. I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. = Real sad story. Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make = psru? I never read the final accident report. =20 Mark=20 =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz = wrote: I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the = psru=E2=80=99s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later = today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have = there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will = provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many = reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, = suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel = for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages = the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. = Will likely be heavier than Tracy=E2=80=99s =20 I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. =20 From: Tom Gillespie=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 Tracy, That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing = how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. = The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well = with me as they are an unknown. Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. Thanks for your time! ~~~tg~~~ =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more = than welcome. I can help with info if you need it. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you.=20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: = 07/28/15 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10326 - Release Date: = 07/28/15 ------=_NextPart_001_001C_01D0C986.CEE13250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Staying busy and getting older, Bill.  =
 
For everyone's information, Sam Hodges flew his very nice = looking=20 Renesis powered RV-7 to Oshkosh this year.  Some of you met Sam at = the=20 Paducah fly in back a =E2=80=9Cfew=E2=80=9D years ago.  I guess = lack of any rotary forums=20 made it difficult for Rotor heads to find each other in that=20 crowd.
 
Me, I=E2=80=99m still selling an occasional EFISM, but = mainly focused on a=20 new version of the EI Commander, my ignition monitor and controller = developed=20 for the popular electronic ignition =E2=80=93 the Pmags.  New = version has a much=20 larger screen 2.4=E2=80=9D vs 1.5=E2=80=9D and I am currently working on = a Knock Sensor feature=20 for the Lycoming crowd.  Some fairly recent developments in Knock = sensors=20 and processors makes it appear that this may be doable.  IF it = works out,=20 the Lycoming crowd could safely run more ignition advance than they = currently do=20 saving some on few and adding power =E2=80=93 IF it works = out.
 
In any case, the research and work keeps the old brain from = locking=20 up.
 
But, I do miss being a more active part of the rotary = community =E2=80=93 my=20 heart sort of got broken when Mazda decided not to make the new 16X=20 rotary.  I already had my pennies saved up to buy a crate engine = =E2=80=93 ah,=20 well.
 
I do have continue to monitor and enjoy the list =E2=80=93 = keep it=20 going
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
Edward L.=20 Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC=20 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
 
:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 

Dang!  = Two guys we=20 haven=E2=80=99t heard from in a long time coming out of the woodwork at = the same=20 time!

 

Lynn and = Ed!  What=20 has been going on with you guys lately?

 

Bill=20

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 = 12:58=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative=20 redrives

 

The Ross = unit had no=20 thrust bearings and used the engines thrust bearings for that function. = OK on=20 most engines where plain bearings control thrust but in the rotary small = needles=20 do that and cannot survive long.

Tracy's units = have a thrust=20 set installed.

Ross units = built after=20 the principal died had suspect=20 quality.............

 

Lynn E.=20 Hanover

 

In a message = dated=20 7/28/2015 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = flyrotary@lancaironline.net=20 writes:

Hi=20 Bill,

 

I flew = around 200=20 hrs with the Ross=20 Drive before finding that the sun gear was=20 galling.  Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross = units was a=20 problem.

 

By that = time,=20 Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, = so rather=20 than mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and never had a=20 problem.  Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area = nickel plated for=20 corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously coated the inside of = tunnel=20 for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil=20 flow.  Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull = through,=20 I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just=20 stopped.  Fortunately, I desisted at that point and = stopped.  Got=20 out and found the prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to = Tracy, he = milled a few=20 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 = hours on=20 it.  Love it!

 

Ed

 

From: Bill Bradburry=20

Sent: Tuesday, = July 28,=20 2015 11:56 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative redrives

 

I stand=20 corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in = contact at=20 any one time.  How many are in contact with the=20 RD1-C?

What was = the problem=20 with the Ross if you know?

Bill=20

From:=20 Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, = July 28, 2015=20 10:37 AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative=20 redrives

 

No,=20 Tracy started off with a=20 Ross=20 = Drive= =E2=80=A6=20

The = Marcotte=20 drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear=20 set:  read for yourself =E2=80=A6  http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.htm= l

Jeff

From:

Bill = Bradburry=20 = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

RE: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative = redrives

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul = 2015=20 10:22:59 = -0500

To:

'Rotary = motors in=20 = aircraft'=20 = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3Dhttp://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-H.txt=20

3Dhttp://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt=20

Jeff,

If I = am not=20 mistaken, Tracy started off using a = Marcotte drive=20 on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him to = develop=20 his own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience to = inspire me=20 to that extent!  :>)

Bill=20

 

 

From: Jeff = Whaley=20
Sent: Tuesday, = July 28, 2015=20 10:17 AM
To: 'Mark=20 Steitle'
Subject: = RE:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

I see = the=20 aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 which may = have lead to the=20 prop shaft fracturing?

 

I = can=E2=80=99t vouch=20 for the =E2=80=9CMarcotte=20 = Drive= =E2=80=9D but Ross = Parnham (referenced on=20 this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the = Marcotte=20 = Drive= on his Subaru-powered = RV6, mated=20 to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive and = bell=20 housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6  http://glasairproj= ect.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff

 

From: Mark = Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July = 27, 2015=20 7:05 PM
Subject: = Re:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 = Glasair 111 at=20 Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c = idling. =20 You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up".  =

Sent=20 from my iPad


On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 = PM, Tom=20 Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

That = was during=20 the Canard Fly-in at Rough River = 2011

 

 

From: Mark Steitle=20

Sent: = Monday, July 27,=20 2015 2:02 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative redrives

 

That = looks a lot=20 like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine = disengaged=20 from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It = was=20 about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in=20 Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it = was a Glasair=20 III with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run = around here=20 somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or = not it=20 was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident=20 report.

 

Mark=20

 

On = Mon, Jul 27,=20 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill=20 Schertz <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

I went = back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s = offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later = today as=20 every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there = own oil=20 supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil = for a=20 constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. = They make a=20 unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the casing = is CNC=20 machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping, and it has a=20 centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine rpm, = so when=20 starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s

 

I have = to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

 

From: Tom = Gillespie=20

Sent: = Sunday, July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

Tracy,

   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it = was put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought = of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as = they are=20 an unknown.

  =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Thanks for=20 your time!

~~~tg~~~

 

 

From: Tracy = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 = 10:04=20 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

The = design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad

 

<= /DIV>

This message, and the = documents attached=20 hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged = or=20 confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly = prohibited.=20 If you have received this message in error, please notify us = immediately so=20 that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the = original=20 message. Thank you.

No virus = found in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / = Virus=20 Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date:=20 = 07/28/15

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / = Virus=20 Database: 4392/10326 - Release Date:=20 07/28/15

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