X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Neil Unger" Received: from nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.189.146] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7872922 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 21:10:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.189.146; envelope-from=neil.unger@bigpond.com Received: from nschwcmgw08p ([61.9.190.168]) by nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20150729010943.KFWN15081.nschwmtas04p.mx.bigpond.com@nschwcmgw08p> for ; Wed, 29 Jul 2015 01:09:43 +0000 Received: from UserPC ([124.183.170.245]) by nschwcmgw08p with BigPond Outbound id y19e1q00W5J1WZY0119eeD; Wed, 29 Jul 2015 01:09:43 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=F6HVh9dN c=1 sm=1 a=HNCOWYG1u1GeOYFPhPQfxQ==:17 a=1IlZJK9HAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=bsATwsvZAAAA:8 a=b24KV4MwAAAA:8 a=-FIAbzsBAAAA:8 a=_ba36y39AAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=z85WeHNOMdfCbrK1QBoA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=EurNaU66fekA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=qQZxsw4jv40A:10 a=mOjFrHE6SbEA:10 a=Uze-wDqNJTYrts3E:21 a=aePoRKsTVMSxbLxj:21 a=TVIpev-oB7y8pF42JDEA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=2qtqKsnTsUDshdzD:21 a=a-X2wTeLQgWAbwOx:21 a=ZHUsY8zHUz0Vp2Os_2YA:9 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 a=HNCOWYG1u1GeOYFPhPQfxQ==:117 Message-ID: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 11:09:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01D0C9EF.0C9E92F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01D0C9EF.0C9E92F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0023_01D0C9EF.0C9E92F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0023_01D0C9EF.0C9E92F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gents, Have kept out so far, as the engineering works is really doing = me over as I asked for one redrive initially, which is a one off for = everything. That makes me nuisance value only. However once My prop = shaft is finally ground My first redrive is ready for testing. Nothing = that 2 years of frustration has helped. Due to the = =E2=80=9Croyal=E2=80=9D treatment I am looking for alternatives for = production to first get supply as required and keep the cost believable. = So according to my latest update, My redrive will be finished at the = end of this week as I have been identically informed for the last month. = I will advise when I actually have it in my hot hand. 3.12 reduction. = Neil. From: Tom Gillespie=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Hi group! Finally got moved and they installed my internet today so now I can = keep up with this forum. It's to hard on my little Iphone. I still think the only choices we have is the Ballistic air boat = drive, (and one other company) and if Tracy would consult, I would build = my own which would solve the 6 inch offset with the Ballistic drive. All we need is a drawing or instructions and sign a release and have = at it. As I have stated before, I would feel a lot more confident building = my own with the talent and resources I am around now than buying = something from a start up company with no hours of testing. OK, thats my two cents for tonight. Any ideas from anyone will be = appreciated as we need to resolve this problem. thanks ~~~tg~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Charlie England To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:42 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I might be mistaken, but I think that the Ross was also missing the = input shaft thrust bearing (overloads the E-shaft thrust bearing).=20 On 7/28/2015 11:22 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: Hi Bill, I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun = gear was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross = units was a problem. By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than = mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s = and never had a problem. Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum = area nickel plated for corriosion and appearance. They erroneously = coated the inside of tunnel for the shaft area of the nose part = reducing the area for oil flow. Went out one morning and noticed that = it was hard to pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated = a few degrees and just stopped. Fortunately, I desisted at that point = and stopped. Got out and found the prop frozen. Took it off and = shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft = tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it. Love it! Ed From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in = contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C? What was the problem with the Ross if you know? Bill=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6=20 The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy =E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear set: read for yourself = =E2=80=A6 http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html Jeff From: Bill Bradburry = mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net=20 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives=20 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500=20 To: ' Rotary motors in aircraft ' = mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net=20 =20 =20 =20 Jeff, If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive = on his RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own = drive. It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that = extent! :>) Bill =20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 = which may have lead to the prop shaft fracturing? I can=E2=80=99t vouch for the =E2=80=9C Marcotte Drive =E2=80=9D but = Ross Parnham (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) = uses the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite = prop. The website shows a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to = a 13B =E2=80=A6 http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html Jeff From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah , Ky " for a video of = this a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly = up". =20 Sent from my iPad On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann = wrote: That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 = http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA5= 12&rpt=3Dfi From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot = when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a = hotel building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in = at Ed's place in Paduka , KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a = turbo-charged LS1. I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. = Real sad story. Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make = psru? I never read the final accident report. Mark=20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz = wrote: I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the = psru=E2=80=99s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later = today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have = there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will = provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many = reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, = suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel = for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages = the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. = Will likely be heavier than Tracy =E2=80=99s I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. From: Tom Gillespie=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh ? Tracy, That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing = how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. = The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well = with me as they are an unknown. Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. Thanks for your time! ~~~tg~~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh ? The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more = than welcome. I can help with info if you need it. Tracy Sent from my iPad This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you.=20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: = 07/28/15 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_001_0023_01D0C9EF.0C9E92F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gents,   Have kept out so far, as the engineering works = is really=20 doing me over as I asked for one redrive initially, which is a one off = for=20 everything.  That makes me nuisance value only.  However once = My prop=20 shaft is finally ground My first redrive is ready for testing.  = Nothing=20 that 2 years of frustration has helped.  Due to the = =E2=80=9Croyal=E2=80=9D treatment I am=20 looking for alternatives for production to first get supply as required = and keep=20 the cost believable.    So according to my latest update, = My=20 redrive will be finished at the end of this week as I have been = identically=20 informed for the last month.  I will advise when I actually have it = in my=20 hot hand.  3.12 reduction.  Neil.
 
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:54 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives
 
Hi group!
   Finally got moved and = they=20 installed my internet today so now I can keep up with this forum. It's = to hard=20 on my little Iphone.
    I still think = the only=20 choices we have is the Ballistic air boat drive, (and one other company) = and if=20 Tracy would consult, I would build my own which would solve the 6 inch = offset=20 with the Ballistic drive.
    All we need is a = drawing=20 or instructions and sign a release and have at it.
    As I have stated = before, I=20 would feel a lot more confident building my own with the talent and = resources I=20 am around now than buying something from a start up company with no = hours of=20 testing.
    OK, thats my two = cents for=20 tonight. Any ideas from anyone will be appreciated as we need to resolve = this=20 problem.
thanks
~~~tg~~~
 
From:=20 Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:42 = PM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative redrives
 
I=20 might be mistaken, but I think that the Ross was also missing the input = shaft=20 thrust bearing (overloads the E-shaft thrust bearing).

On = 7/28/2015=20 11:22 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Hi Bill,
 
I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the = sun=20 gear was galling.  Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the = Ross=20 units was a problem.
 
By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather = than mess=20 with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and = never had a=20 problem.  Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area = nickel plated for=20 corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously coated the inside of = tunnel=20 for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil=20 flow.  Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull = through,=20 I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just=20 stopped.  Fortunately, I desisted at that point and = stopped.  Got=20 out and found the prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to Tracy, = he=20 milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have = around=20 400 hours on it.  Love it!
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives
 
I stand=20 corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in = contact at=20 any one time.  How many are in contact with the=20 RD1-C?
What was = the problem=20 with the Ross if you know?
Bill=20
From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net]=20
Sent: Tuesday, = July 28, 2015=20 10:37 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Alternative redrives
 
No, = Tracy=20 started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6
The = Marcotte=20 drive is a different configuration than Tracy =E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear=20 set:  read for yourself =E2=80=A6  http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html
Jeff
From:
Bill Bradburry mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net
Subject:
RE: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative=20 redrives
Date:
Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59=20 -0500
To:
' Rotary motors in = aircraft ' mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net


Jeff,
If I = am not=20 mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his = RV-4. =20 That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own = drive. =20 It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that=20 extent!  :>)
Bill=20
 
 
From: Jeff=20 Whaley
Sent: = Tuesday, July=20 28, 2015 10:17 AM
To: 'Mark=20 Steitle'
Subject: = RE:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 
I see = the=20 aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 which may = have lead to the=20 prop shaft fracturing?
 
I = can=E2=80=99t vouch=20 for the =E2=80=9C Marcotte Drive =E2=80=9D but Ross Parnham = (referenced on this list for P51=20 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered = RV6,=20 mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of = re-drive and=20 bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6  http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html<= /FONT>
Jeff
 
From: Mark=20 Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July = 27, 2015=20 7:05 PM
Subject: = Re:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 
Search=20 YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah , Ky " for a video of this = a/c=20 idling.  You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly = up". =20

Sent from my iPad

On Jul = 27, 2015, at=20 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>=20 wrote:
That = was during=20 the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011
 
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.as= px?id=3DERA11FA512&rpt=3Dfi
 
From: Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: = Monday, July 27,=20 2015 2:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative redrives
 
That = looks a lot=20 like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine = disengaged=20 from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It = was=20 about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in = Paduka ,=20 KY.   As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a = turbo-charged=20 LS1.  I have video of a ground run around here somewhere.  = Real=20 sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same = make=20 psru?  I never read the final accident=20 report.
 
Mark=20
 
On = Mon, Jul 27,=20 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>=20 wrote:
I went = back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s = offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will = forward these=20 later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear = drive, have=20 there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, = will=20 provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many = reduction=20 ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable for = the=20 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque = damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop = below ~900=20 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be = heavier=20 than Tracy =E2=80=99s
 
I have = to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send = them.
 
From: Tom=20 Gillespie
Sent: = Sunday, July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh = ?
 
Tracy,
   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it = was put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought = of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as = they are=20 an unknown.
  =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in = touch.
Thanks for=20 your time!
~~~tg~~~
 
 
From: Tracy = <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>=20
Sent: Sunday, = July 26,=20 2015 10:04 AM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh ?
 
The = design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.
 
Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad
 
This message, and the documents attached = hereto, is=20 intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or = confidential=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If = you have=20 received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that = we may=20 correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank=20 you.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - = www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus = Database:=20 4392/10324 - Release Date:=20 07/28/15



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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