X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-pd0-f176.google.com ([209.85.192.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7872201 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:41:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.176; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by pdbnt7 with SMTP id nt7so75572355pdb.0 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=lGsGzXpSW/yGXHgXu6M8QWk9/SsmCF8Jgje9GUjRszk=; b=EwnNWs+1XhTgASnZuRdT14Aqs8kNh6+IgxocwbV7cqeNPM2OfdWjdh2RSjgrvrROiX oyXfitYXoGzFiiCazsXX9ZdLTwIuQTTqf/duRbO3CJ8vJv5f+WzwGEiroDsz6ideSufA JFuzAWQt4jeCI6W+UMchD4Lebd2McvC8KXSjHNsV6cQo6OOKkmvDIyqD1yl+M33UBuxj 6uBFMpQuUtGA/x9o1EGA6RyvScHI3IAL0rK7K92FD933Zuuk6YMhpDnZA4USmdgtUnf7 IlTqYv83BHD1vaIzbAtPX9NT3Sr4gSjAh33Xe2O7CwdvLBkc5amqIYosAMCz/rQtdd25 IaBA== X-Received: by 10.70.131.73 with SMTP id ok9mr84343113pdb.109.1438112436294; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:25fb:689:cc7e:baf5:a249:3ebe? ([2602:306:25fb:689:cc7e:baf5:a249:3ebe]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id fy5sm36603458pdb.93.2015.07.28.12.40.31 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <55B7DB41.20804@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:42:57 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030107080207040403020701" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030107080207040403020701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I might be mistaken, but I think that the Ross was also missing the input shaft thrust bearing (overloads the E-shaft thrust bearing). On 7/28/2015 11:22 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Hi Bill, > I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun > gear was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross > units was a problem. > By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than > mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy’s and > never had a problem. Well, one – I had the entire aluminum area > nickel plated for corriosion and appearance. They erroneously coated > the inside of tunnel for the shaft area of the nose part reducing the > area for oil flow. Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard > to pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few > degrees and just stopped. Fortunately, I desisted at that point and > stopped. Got out and found the prop frozen. Took it off and shipped > to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel > and I now have around 400 hours on it. Love it! > Ed > *From:* Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in > contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C? > > What was the problem with the Ross if you know? > > Bill > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive … > > The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy’s “Ford-6” > planetary gear set: read for yourself … http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html > > Jeff > > From: > > > > Bill Bradburry > > Subject: > > > > RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > Date: > > > > Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 > > To: > > > > 'Rotary motors in aircraft' > > > > Message Header > > > Undecoded Message > > > Jeff, > > If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his > RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own > drive. It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that > extent! :>) > > Bill > > *From:*Jeff Whaley > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM > *To:* 'Mark Steitle' > *Subject:* RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor – which may > have lead to the prop shaft fracturing? > > I can’t vouch for the “Marcotte Drive” but Ross Parnham (referenced on > this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on > his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop. The website shows > a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B … > http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html > > Jeff > > *From:*Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM > *Subject:* Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of > this a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann > wrote: > > That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 > > http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=ERA11FA512&rpt=fi > > *From:*Mark Steitle > > *Sent:*Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM > > *To:*Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives > > That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot > when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it > into a hotel building. It was about a week after the alternative > engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a > Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS1. I have video of a ground > run around here somewhere. Real sad story. Can anyone confirm > whether or not it was the same make psru? I never read the final > accident report. > > Mark > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz > > > wrote: > > I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the > psru’s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I > will forward these later today as every thing gets transferred . > They are spur gear drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use > pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil for a constant > speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. They make > a unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the > casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque > damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop > below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. > Will likely be heavier than Tracy’s > > I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. > > *From:*Tom Gillespie > > *Sent:*Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM > > *To:*Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? > > Tracy, > > That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my > combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind > knowing how it was put together by me along with your knowledge > and experience. The thought of someone just starting out making > them does not sit well with me as they are an unknown. > > Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. > > Thanks for your time! > > ~~~tg~~~ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Tracy > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? > > The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more > than welcome. I can help with info if you need it. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for > the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. > Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that > we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original > message. Thank you. > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: 07/28/15 > --------------030107080207040403020701 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------080805020005020902030202" --------------080805020005020902030202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I might be mistaken, but I think that the Ross was also missing the input shaft thrust bearing (overloads the E-shaft thrust bearing).

On 7/28/2015 11:22 AM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Hi Bill,
 
I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun gear was galling.  Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross units was a problem.
 
By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy’s and never had a problem.  Well, one – I had the entire aluminum area nickel plated for corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously coated the inside of tunnel for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil flow.  Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just stopped.  Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped.  Got out and found the prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it.  Love it!
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 

I stand corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in contact at any one time.  How many are in contact with the RD1-C?

What was the problem with the Ross if you know?

Bill

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive …

The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy’s “Ford-6” planetary gear set:  read for yourself …  http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html

Jeff

From:

Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500

To:

'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Message Header

Undecoded Message

Jeff,

If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that extent!  :>)

Bill

 

 

From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM
To: 'Mark Steitle'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor – which may have lead to the prop shaft fracturing?

 

I can’t vouch for the “Marcotte Drive” but Ross Parnham (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B …  http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff

 

From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c idling.  You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". 

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011

 

 

From: Mark Steitle

Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run around here somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident report.

 

Mark

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru’s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than Tracy’s

 

I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them.

 

Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

Tracy,

    That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they are an unknown.

   Let me know what you think and I will be in touch.

Thanks for your time!

~~~tg~~~

 

 

From: Tracy <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

The design is royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than welcome.   I can help with info if you need it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

 

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: 07/28/15


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