X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173025pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.25] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7871974 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:11:15 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.25; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([71.164.185.6]) by vms173025.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0NS700D2KMHQRHH0@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:10:39 -0500 (CDT) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=WcjxEBVX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=20weQFHSdBTlwctzPCQ/Gw==:117 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=oR5dmqMzAAAA:8 a=-9mUelKeXuEA:10 a=zOBTXjUuO1YA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=bsATwsvZAAAA:8 a=b24KV4MwAAAA:8 a=-FIAbzsBAAAA:8 a=_ba36y39AAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=BupACgUkIsh-m3QOhI0A:9 a=pyDhkdEUthb8Abe2:21 a=O1JBraQwQlU68nWd:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=EurNaU66fekA:10 a=qQZxsw4jv40A:10 a=mOjFrHE6SbEA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=l6vlUdECpBeCL-vBEugA:9 a=IC3WeZ_GasC_DrKd:21 a=UWnM3P2Tekp76x8F:21 a=9s-rkzzo3sTPJU9z:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=ZHUsY8zHUz0Vp2Os_2YA:9 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:10:39 -0500 Message-id: <6E0D5DDB02F24499942DD592B8ABD8BB@Desktop> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0C936.CD0CF5E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AdDJXxQYuY8AiDEPS++OJq7gzg/fHwAAUBzA X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D0C936.CD0CF5E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0028_01D0C936.CD0CF5E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0028_01D0C936.CD0CF5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dang! Two guys we haven't heard from in a long time coming out of the woodwork at the same time! Lynn and Ed! What has been going on with you guys lately? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 12:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives The Ross unit had no thrust bearings and used the engines thrust bearings for that function. OK on most engines where plain bearings control thrust but in the rotary small needles do that and cannot survive long. Tracy's units have a thrust set installed. Ross units built after the principal died had suspect quality............. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: Hi Bill, I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun gear was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross units was a problem. By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than mess with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy's and never had a problem. Well, one - I had the entire aluminum area nickel plated for corriosion and appearance. They erroneously coated the inside of tunnel for the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil flow. Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just stopped. Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped. Got out and found the prop frozen. Took it off and shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it. Love it! Ed From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C? What was the problem with the Ross if you know? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive . The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy's "Ford-6" planetary gear set: read for yourself . http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html Jeff From: Bill Bradburry Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-H.txt http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt Jeff, If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own drive. It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that extent! :>) Bill From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor - which may have lead to the prop shaft fracturing? I can't vouch for the "Marcotte Drive" but Ross Parnham (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop. The website shows a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B . http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html Jeff From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". Sent from my iPad On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann wrote: That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=ERA11FA512 &rpt=fi From: Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS1. I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. Real sad story. Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make psru? I never read the final accident report. Mark On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz wrote: I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru's offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than Tracy's I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. From: Tom Gillespie Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? Tracy, That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they are an unknown. Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. Thanks for your time! ~~~tg~~~ _____ From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more than welcome. I can help with info if you need it. Tracy Sent from my iPad This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: 07/28/15 ------=_NextPart_001_0028_01D0C936.CD0CF5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dang!  Two guys we = haven’t heard from in a long time coming out of the woodwork at the same = time!

 

Lynn and Ed!  What has been = going on with you guys lately?

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, = 2015 12:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

The Ross unit had no thrust = bearings and used the engines thrust bearings for that function. OK on most engines = where plain bearings control thrust but in the rotary small needles do = that and cannot survive long.

Tracy's units have a thrust set = installed.

Ross units built after the = principal died had suspect quality.............

 

=

Lynn E. = Hanover

 

=

In a message dated 7/28/2015 = 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net = writes:

Hi = Bill,

 

=

I flew around 200 hrs with the = Ross = Drive before finding that the sun gear was galling.  Apparently marginal = lubrication in some of the Ross units was a problem.

 

=

By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than mess with the Ross (still = have it), I purchased one of Tracy’s and never had a problem.  Well, one – I had the entire = aluminum area nickel plated for corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously = coated the inside of tunnel for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the = area for oil flow.  Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to = pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and = just stopped.  Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped.  = Got out and found the prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off = the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it.  Love = it!

 

=

Ed

 

From: Bill Bradburry =

Sent: Tuesday, July = 28, 2015 11:56 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

I stand corrected.  This drive would only have a couple = of teeth in contact at any one time.  How many are in contact with the = RD1-C?

What was the problem with the Ross if you = know?

Bill

From: = Rotary motors in = aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, = 2015 10:37 AM
To: = Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

 

No, Tracy started off with a = Ross = Drive= … =

The Marcotte drive is a different configuration = than Tracy’s = “Ford-6” planetary gear set:  read for yourself …  http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.ht= ml

Jeff

From:

=

Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:<= /p>

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative redrives

Date:

=

Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 = -0500

To:

'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-H.txt"

3D"http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt"

Jeff,

If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte = drive on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his = own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to = that extent!  :>)

Bill

 <= /span>

 <= /span>

From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, = 2015 10:17 AM
To: 'Mark Steitle'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] = Re: Alternative redrives

 

I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor – which may have lead to the prop shaft = fracturing?

 <= /span>

I can’t vouch for the = “Marcotte = Drive= ” but Ross Parnham = (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the = Marcotte = Drive= on his Subaru-powered = RV6, mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive and = bell housing mated to a 13B …  http://glasairpro= ject.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff

 <= /span>

From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net]
Sent: Monday, July 27, = 2015 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] = Re: Alternative redrives

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at = Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c idling.  You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". 

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:

That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River = 2011

 

 

From: Mark Steitle =

Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the = pilot when the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a = hotel building.  It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in = at Ed's place in Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run around here somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or not = it was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident = report.

 

Mark

 

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:

 

I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send = them.

 

Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

Tracy,

  =   That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my combination = of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was put = together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought of someone = just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they are an = unknown.

  = Let me know what you think and I will be in touch.

Thanks for = your time!

~~~tg~~~

 <= /o:p>

 

=

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is = intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential = information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct = our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. =

No virus = found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: = 07/28/15

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