X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-m4.mx.aol.com ([64.12.226.25] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7871957 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:06:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.226.25; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com [172.26.127.227]) by omr-m4.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 0167238000045 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:05:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mxd003c.mail.aol.com (core-mxd003.mail.aol.com [172.29.195.201]) by mtaomg-aad01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 9B68238000084 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:05:32 -0400 (EDT) Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 14:05:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_b8150.4d412505.42e91e6b_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 4049 X-Originating-IP: [50.151.84.32] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5700.7163/105148 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1438106732; bh=b4N0MWWqEXGQq7+04t1ieBZHA3d85HgNU5Y/xY0UG1w=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=eHg3smmDuMB0ckSsb/13eV3/5cpv30fHQWai5rh5PDk9KDJXw3o09+OeXa9jUEoD9 eJSwVc/zq7PS1vmxjPevg8y+OqcOVj3hwqpBcA5wBNoiY24fMzzgRB02p+RirXdKY8 vJZ8vEksg1of8xnqGNccCs/AxU/a8cgj9XGtGyGc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7fe355b7c46c283a --part1_b8150.4d412505.42e91e6b_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_b8150.4d412505.42e91e6b_rel_boundary" --part1_b8150.4d412505.42e91e6b_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="b8150.4d412505_alt_bound" --b8150.4d412505_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Tracy wrote a string of newsletters which he then published in one of two= =20 books explaining all of this.. =20 One of the main things that he noticed was the fact that under operation= =20 the Ross gears caused the drive shaft to hammer, I believe it was the end= of=20 the eccentric shaft and deform the metal. I'm not that familiar with the= =20 Ross, but the lubrication system is totally different in the RWS.=20 =20 Since the RWS is a planetary reduction with either 4 or 6 planets (6 in th= e=20 1-C), the contact, is probably considerably greater, but that is just a= =20 guess. Additionally the planetary setup does not put side loads on either= =20 the eccentric shaft or the drive shaft bearings.(for whatever that is wor= th)=20 =20 Rich =20 =20 In a message dated 7/28/2015 10:58:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: =20 I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in=20 contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C?=20 What was the problem with the Ross if you know?=20 Bill =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6 =20 The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D=20 planetary gear set: read for yourself =E2=80=A6 http://www.sdsefi.com/ai= r14.html=20 Jeff =20 From: =20 Bill Bradburry =20 Subject: =20 RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Date: =20 Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 =20 To: =20 'Rotary motors in aircraft' =20 (http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-H.txt)=20 (http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt)=20 Jeff,=20 If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his=20 RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own drive.= It=20 would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that extent! :>)=20 Bill =20 =20 =20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 whic= h may=20 have lead to the prop shaft fracturing?=20 I can=E2=80=99t vouch for the =E2=80=9CMarcotte Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross= Parnham (referenced on=20 this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his= =20 Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop. The website shows a pictu= re of=20 re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6 =20 http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html=20 Jeff=20 =20 =20 From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this= =20 a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". =20 Sent from my iPad =20 On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrote: =20 =20 =20 =20 That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 =20 =20 http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA51= 2&rp t=3Dfi =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: _Mark Steitle_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 =20 =20 =20 That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the= =20 engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel=20 building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed'= s place=20 in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS= 1. =20 I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. Real sad story. Can= =20 anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make psru? I never read th= e=20 final accident report. =20 =20 Mark =20 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz =20 <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wro= te:=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2= =80=99s=20 offered by _www.autopsrus.com_ (http://www.autopsrus.com/) . I will forwa= rd=20 these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear=20 drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearin= gs,=20 will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many=20 reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable= for the=20 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque=20 damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below= ~900=20 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavie= r than=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s =20 =20 I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: _Tom Gillespie_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Tracy, =20 =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my=20 combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing ho= w it was put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought of= =20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they ar= e =20 an unknown. =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. =20 Thanks for your time! =20 ~~~tg~~~ =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Tracy <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > To: Rotary motors in aircraft <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) >=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more than = =20 welcome. I can help with info if you need it. =20 =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the= =20 addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20 unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this= =20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our= =20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.=20 --b8150.4d412505_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en =
Tracy wrote a string of newsletters which he then published in one of= two=20 books explaining all of this..
 
One of the main things that he noticed was the fact that under operat= ion=20 the Ross gears caused the drive shaft to hammer, I believe it was the end= of the=20 eccentric shaft and deform the metal. I'm not that familiar with the Ross,= but=20 the lubrication system is totally different in the RWS.
 
Since the RWS is a planetary reduction with either 4 or 6 planets (6= in the=20 1-C), the contact, is probably considerably greater, but that is just a gu= ess.=20 Additionally the planetary setup does not put side loads on either=20 the eccentric shaft or the drive shaft bearings.(for whatever th= at is=20 worth) 
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 7/28/2015 10:58:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

I stand=20 corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in contact= at=20 any one time.  How many are in contact with the=20 RD1-C?

What was the= problem=20 with the Ross if you know?

Bill=20

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alter= native=20 redrives

 

No,= Tracy started off with a=20 Ross=20 Drive =E2=80=A6

The= Marcotte=20 drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2= =80=9D planetary gear set:=20  read for yourself =E2=80=A6  http://www.sdsef= i.com/air14.html

Jeff<= o:p>

From:

Bill Bradbur= ry=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= /FONT>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Alternative=20 redrives

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul= 2015 10:22:59=20 -0500

To:

'Rotary=20 motors in aircraft'=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= /FONT>

=

3Dht=

3Dhttp://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt

Jeff,

If I am not=20 mistaken, T= racy started off using a Marcotte=20 drive on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him= to=20 develop his own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience= to=20 inspire me to that extent!  :>)

Bill=20

=  

=  

From: Jeff=20 Whaley
Sent: Tuesday= , July=20 28, 2015 10:17 AM
To:= 'Mark=20 Steitle'
Subject: RE:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

<= /DIV>

 

I see= the=20 aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 which may hav= e lead to the=20 prop shaft fracturing?

=  

I can= =E2=80=99t vouch=20 for the =E2=80=9CMarcot= te=20 Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross Parnham (referenced= on this list=20 for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his Sub= aru-powered RV6,=20 mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive= and=20 bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6  http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff<= o:p>

=  

From: Mark=20 Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July= 27, 2015=20 7:05 PM
Subject: Re:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

<= /DIV>

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c idlin= g.=20  You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up".=20  

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 27, 2015= , at=20 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>=20 wrote:

That= was during=20 the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011

 = ;

 =

Sent: Monday, July 27,=20 2015 2:02 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= =20 Alternative redrives

 = ;

That= looks a lot=20 like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine diseng= aged=20 from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It= was=20 about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it was= a Glasair=20 III with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run aroun= d here=20 somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or= not it=20 was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident=20 report.

 = ;

Mark= =20

 = ;

On Mo= n, Jul 27,=20 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz=20 <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>=20 wrote:

I wen= t back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s offe= red by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward th= ese later today as=20 every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there ow= n oil=20 supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil fo= r a=20 constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. They= make a=20 unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the casing= is CNC=20 machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping, and it has a=20 centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so= when=20 starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than Tracy=E2=80=99s

 = ;

I hav= e to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

 =

From: Tom Gillespie=20

Sent: Sunday, July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= =20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 = ;

Tracy= ,

   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my combi= nation=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was= put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought= of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as the= y are=20 an unknown.

  =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Thanks for=20 your time!

~~~tg~~~

 

=  

From: Tracy <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10= :04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

The design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad

=  =

This message, and the documents attached hereto= , is=20 intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidenti= al=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you= have=20 received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we= may=20 correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message.= Thank=20 you.

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