X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-a016e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.65] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7871936 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:58:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.65; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-aae02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aae02.mx.aol.com [172.27.1.100]) by omr-a016e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 7CB793800044 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mob05h.mail.aol.com (core-mob05.mail.aol.com [172.27.62.15]) by mtaomg-aae02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 32FC138000088 for ; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:58:23 -0400 (EDT) Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 13:58:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_d93db.5cb7df78.42e91cbe_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 4049 X-Originating-IP: [74.140.106.236] x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5700.7163/105148 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1438106303; bh=sdG7y1HOhGB/LLVXMLG8Kk0FRcUgWdlIHWZlz5gOd/E=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Eq2FOkmVE0iFkzyLy8WtJFbH5EAsXAC3uQGs7ZocF05z/JVX2rFM0mw2XQxCjvqe9 gWyl9XNMKwo0iXc86xxP+b3G1HMbzSYojn22noTXJUws9/awlY0Nfp2of9kHJXo0nD caKqS+SeZwaqDO8MA8Mq84/Tnx8YoZx1TGHA6THM= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b016455b7c2bf0d26 --part1_d93db.5cb7df78.42e91cbe_boundary Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="part1_d93db.5cb7df78.42e91cbe_rel_boundary" --part1_d93db.5cb7df78.42e91cbe_rel_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="d93db.5cb7df78_alt_bound" --d93db.5cb7df78_alt_bound Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en The Ross unit had no thrust bearings and used the engines thrust bearings= =20 for that function. OK on most engines where plain bearings control thrust= =20 but in the rotary small needles do that and cannot survive long. Tracy's units have a thrust set installed. Ross units built after the principal died had suspect quality............= . =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: =20 Hi Bill, =20 I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun gea= r=20 was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross units= =20 was a problem. =20 By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than mess = =20 with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and neve= r had a =20 problem. Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area nickel plated= for =20 corriosion and appearance. They erroneously coated the inside of tunnel= for the=20 shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil flow. Went out one= =20 morning and noticed that it was hard to pull through, I tried to start th= e=20 engine and it rotated a few degrees and just stopped. Fortunately, I=20 desisted at that point and stopped. Got out and found the prop frozen.= Took it=20 off and shipped to Tracy, he milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the= =20 shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on it. Love it! =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: _Bill Bradburry_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 =20 =20 I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in=20 contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C?=20 What was the problem with the Ross if you know?=20 Bill =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6 =20 The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s =E2= =80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D=20 planetary gear set: read for yourself =E2=80=A6 http://www.sdsefi.com/a= ir14.html=20 Jeff =20 From: =20 Bill Bradburry =20 Subject: =20 RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Date: =20 Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 =20 To: =20 'Rotary motors in aircraft' =20 (http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-H.txt)=20 (http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt)=20 Jeff,=20 If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on his=20 RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own drive.= It=20 would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that extent! :>)=20 Bill =20 =20 =20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 whic= h may=20 have lead to the prop shaft fracturing?=20 I can=E2=80=99t vouch for the =E2=80=9CMarcotte Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross= Parnham (referenced on=20 this list for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his= =20 Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop. The website shows a pictu= re of=20 re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6 =20 http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html=20 Jeff=20 =20 =20 From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this= =20 a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". =20 Sent from my iPad =20 On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrote: =20 =20 =20 =20 That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 =20 =20 http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA51= 2&rp t=3Dfi =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: _Mark Steitle_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 =20 =20 =20 That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the= =20 engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel=20 building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed'= s place=20 in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a turbo-charged LS= 1. =20 I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. Real sad story. Can= =20 anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make psru? I never read th= e=20 final accident report. =20 =20 Mark =20 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz =20 <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wro= te:=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2= =80=99s=20 offered by _www.autopsrus.com_ (http://www.autopsrus.com/) . I will forwa= rd=20 these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear=20 drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearin= gs,=20 will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many=20 reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, suitable= for the=20 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the torque=20 damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below= ~900=20 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavie= r than=20 Tracy=E2=80=99s =20 =20 I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: _Tom Gillespie_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM =20 To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Tracy, =20 =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my=20 combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing ho= w it was put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought of= =20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as they ar= e =20 an unknown. =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. =20 Thanks for your time! =20 ~~~tg~~~ =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Tracy <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > To: Rotary motors in aircraft <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) >=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more than = =20 welcome. I can help with info if you need it. =20 =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the= =20 addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any=20 unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this= =20 message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our= =20 internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.=20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)=20 Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: 07/28/= 15 --d93db.5cb7df78_alt_bound Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
The Ross unit had no thrust bearings and used the engines thrust bear= ings=20 for that function. OK on most engines where plain bearings control thrust= but in=20 the rotary small needles do that and cannot survive long.
Tracy's units have a thrust set installed.
Ross units built after the principal died had suspect=20 quality.............
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 7/28/2015 12:23:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
Hi Bill,
 
I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the= sun=20 gear was galling.  Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the= Ross=20 units was a problem.
 
By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than= mess=20 with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and ne= ver had a=20 problem.  Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area nickel= plated for=20 corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously coated the inside of= tunnel=20 for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil=20 flow.  Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull th= rough,=20 I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just=20 stopped.  Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped. = Got=20 out and found the prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to Tracy,= he=20 milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have= around=20 400 hours on it.  Love it!
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives
 

I stand=20 corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in contact= at=20 any one time.  How many are in contact with the=20 RD1-C?

What was the= problem=20 with the Ross if you know?

Bill=20

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alter= native=20 redrives

 

No,= Tracy started off with a=20 Ross=20 Drive =E2=80=A6

The= Marcotte=20 drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2= =80=9D planetary gear set: =20 read for yourself =E2=80=A6  http://www.sdsefi.com/= air14.html

Jeff<= o:p>

From:

Bill Bradbur= ry=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= /FONT>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Alternative=20 redrives

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul= 2015 10:22:59=20 -0500

To:

'Rotary=20 motors in aircraft'=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= /FONT>

=

3Dht=

3Dhttp://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/62005-P.txt

Jef= f,

If= I am not=20 mistaken, T= racy started off using a Marcotte=20 drive on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him= to=20 develop his own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience= to=20 inspire me to that extent!  :>)

Bil= l=20

=  

=  

From: Jeff=20 Whaley
Sent: Tuesday= , July=20 28, 2015 10:17 AM
To:= 'Mark=20 Steitle'
Subject: RE:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

<= /DIV>

 

I see= the=20 aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 which may hav= e lead to the=20 prop shaft fracturing?

=  

I can= =E2=80=99t vouch=20 for the =E2=80=9CMarcot= te=20 Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross Parnham (referenced= on this list=20 for P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his Sub= aru-powered RV6,=20 mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive= and=20 bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6  http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff<= o:p>

=  

From: Mark=20 Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July= 27, 2015=20 7:05 PM
Subject: Re:= =20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives

<= /DIV>

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c idlin= g. =20 You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". 

Se= nt=20 from my iPad


On Jul 27, 2015= , at=20 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>=20 wrote:

That= was during=20 the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011

 = ;

 =

Sent: Monday, July 27,=20 2015 2:02 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= =20 Alternative redrives

 = ;

That= looks a lot=20 like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine diseng= aged=20 from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It= was=20 about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it was= a Glasair=20 III with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run aroun= d here=20 somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or= not it=20 was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident=20 report.

 = ;

Mark= =20

 = ;

On Mo= n, Jul 27,=20 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz=20 <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>=20 wrote:

I wen= t back to=20 the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s offe= red by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward th= ese later today as=20 every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have there ow= n oil=20 supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will provide oil fo= r a=20 constant speed prop, and are available in many reduction ratios. They= make a=20 unit that can be straight through, suitable for the 13-B, the casing= is CNC=20 machined. They use a flywheel for the torque damping, and it has a=20 centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so= when=20 starting there is no prop load. Will likely be heavier than Tracy=E2=80=99s

 = ;

I hav= e to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

 =

From: Tom Gillespie=20

Sent: Sunday, July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= =20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 = ;

Tracy= ,

   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my combi= nation=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was= put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought= of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as the= y are=20 an unknown.

  =20 Let me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Thanks for=20 your time!

~~~tg~~~

 

=  

From: Tracy <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10= :04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

The design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad

=  

This message, and the documents attached hereto= , is=20 intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidenti= al=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you= have=20 received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we= may=20 correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message.= Thank=20 you.

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus=20 Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date:=20 07/28/15

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