X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ed Anderson" Received: from [107.14.166.232] (HELO cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTP id 7871656 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:23:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=107.14.166.232; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: Received: from [71.75.143.5] ([71.75.143.5:56224] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 81/B4-29898-45CA7B55; Tue, 28 Jul 2015 16:22:45 +0000 Message-ID: <4B3DA64FD90A4D3DB2B18B5042508237@EdPC> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:22:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008E_01D0C930.1B6E21C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.142:25 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008E_01D0C930.1B6E21C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_008F_01D0C930.1B6E21C0" ------=_NextPart_001_008F_01D0C930.1B6E21C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bill, I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the sun = gear was galling. Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross = units was a problem. By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than mess = with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and = never had a problem. Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area = nickel plated for corriosion and appearance. They erroneously coated = the inside of tunnel for the shaft area of the nose part reducing the = area for oil flow. Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to = pull through, I tried to start the engine and it rotated a few degrees = and just stopped. Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped. = Got out and found the prop frozen. Took it off and shipped to Tracy, he = milled a few 1/10000 off the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have = around 400 hours on it. Love it! Ed From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives I stand corrected. This drive would only have a couple of teeth in = contact at any one time. How many are in contact with the RD1-C? What was the problem with the Ross if you know? Bill=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 No, Tracy started off with a Ross Drive =E2=80=A6=20 The Marcotte drive is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear set: read for yourself = =E2=80=A6 http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.html Jeff From: Bill Bradburry =20 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59 -0500 =20 To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' = =20 =20 =20 =20 Jeff, If I am not mistaken, Tracy started off using a Marcotte drive on = his RV-4. That drive I think is what inspired him to develop his own = drive. It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire me to that = extent! :>) Bill=20 =20 =20 =20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:17 AM To: 'Mark Steitle' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 I see the aircraft was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 = which may have lead to the prop shaft fracturing? =20 I can=E2=80=99t vouch for the =E2=80=9CMarcotte Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross = Parnham (referenced on this list for P51 style radiator install) uses = the Marcotte Drive on his Subaru-powered RV6, mated to a composite prop. = The website shows a picture of re-drive and bell housing mated to a 13B = =E2=80=A6 http://glasairproject.com/Marcotte/index.html Jeff =20 From: Mark Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:05 PM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at Paducah, Ky" for a video of = this a/c idling. You can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly = up". =20 Sent from my iPad On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Tom Mann = wrote: That was during the Canard Fly-in at Rough River 2011 =20 = http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/GeneratePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA5= 12&rpt=3Dfi =20 From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative redrives =20 That looks a lot like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when = the engine disengaged from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel = building. It was about a week after the alternative engine fly-in at = Ed's place in Paduka, KY. As I recall, it was a Glasair III with a = turbo-charged LS1. I have video of a ground run around here somewhere. = Real sad story. Can anyone confirm whether or not it was the same make = psru? I never read the final accident report. =20 Mark=20 =20 On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill Schertz = wrote: I went back to the exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the = psru=E2=80=99s offered by www.autopsrus.com . I will forward these later = today as every thing gets transferred . They are spur gear drive, have = there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller bearings, will = provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many = reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, = suitable for the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel = for the torque damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages = the prop below ~900 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. = Will likely be heavier than Tracy=E2=80=99s =20 I have to reduce the size of the pictures before I can send them. =20 From: Tom Gillespie=20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:59 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 Tracy, That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing = how it was put together by me along with your knowledge and experience. = The thought of someone just starting out making them does not sit well = with me as they are an unknown. Let me know what you think and I will be in touch. Thanks for your time! ~~~tg~~~ =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh? =20 The design is royalty free. Anyone who wants to build it is more than = welcome. I can help with info if you need it. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you.=20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date: = 07/28/15 ------=_NextPart_001_008F_01D0C930.1B6E21C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bill,
 
I flew around 200 hrs with the Ross Drive before finding that the = sun gear=20 was galling.  Apparently marginal lubrication in some of the Ross = units was=20 a problem.
 
By that time, Tracy had his Re-drive on the market, so rather than = mess=20 with the Ross (still have it), I purchased one of Tracy=E2=80=99s and = never had a=20 problem.  Well, one =E2=80=93 I had the entire aluminum area nickel = plated for=20 corriosion and appearance.  They erroneously coated the inside of = tunnel=20 for  the shaft area of the nose part reducing the area for oil = flow. =20 Went out one morning and noticed that it was hard to pull through, I = tried to=20 start the engine and it rotated a few degrees and just stopped. =20 Fortunately, I desisted at that point and stopped.  Got out and = found the=20 prop frozen.  Took it off and shipped to Tracy, he milled a few = 1/10000 off=20 the inside of the shaft tunnel and I now have around 400 hours on = it.  Love=20 it!
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives
 

I stand=20 corrected.  This drive would only have a couple of teeth in contact = at any=20 one time.  How many are in contact with the=20 RD1-C?

What was the = problem=20 with the Ross if you know?

Bill=20

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 = 10:37=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative=20 redrives

 

No, = Tracy started = off with a=20 Ross=20 Drive =E2=80=A6

The = Marcotte drive=20 is a different configuration than Tracy=E2=80=99s = =E2=80=9CFord-6=E2=80=9D planetary gear set:  read=20 for yourself =E2=80=A6  http://www.sdsefi.com/air14.htm= l

Jeff

From:

Bill Bradburry=20 = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: = Alternative=20 redrives

Date:

Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:22:59=20 -0500

To:

'Rotary=20 motors in aircraft'=20 = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>



Jeff,

If I am = not=20 mistaken, Tracy started off using a = Marcotte drive=20 on his RV-4.  That drive I think is what inspired him to = develop his=20 own drive.  It would take a pretty bad experience to inspire = me to=20 that extent!  :>)

Bill=20

 

 

From: Jeff=20 Whaley
Sent: = Tuesday, July 28,=20 2015 10:17 AM
To: = 'Mark=20 Steitle'
Subject: RE: = [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

I see = the aircraft=20 was equipped with an Aluminum Propellor =E2=80=93 which may have lead to = the prop shaft=20 fracturing?

 

I = can=E2=80=99t vouch for=20 the =E2=80=9CMarcotte=20 Drive=E2=80=9D but Ross Parnham (referenced = on this list for=20 P51 style radiator install) uses the Marcotte Drive on his = Subaru-powered RV6,=20 mated to a composite prop.  The website shows a picture of re-drive = and=20 bell housing mated to a 13B =E2=80=A6  http://glasairproj= ect.com/Marcotte/index.html

Jeff

 

From: Mark=20 Steitle [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20
Sent: Monday, July = 27, 2015=20 7:05 PM
Subject: Re:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Alternative = redrives

 

Search YouTube under "LS1 Glasair 111 at = Paducah, Ky" for a video of this a/c = idling.  You=20 can hear him saying the PSRU builder is "belly up". 

Sent = from my=20 iPad


On Jul 27, = 2015, at=20 2:38 PM, Tom Mann <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

That was = during=20 the Canard Fly-in at Rough River = 2011

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/Gener= atePDF.aspx?id=3DERA11FA512&rpt=3Dfi

=

 

From: Mark Steitle=20

Sent: Monday, = July 27,=20 2015 2:02 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Alternative redrives

 

That = looks a lot=20 like the gearbox that failed, killing the pilot when the engine = disengaged=20 from the prop and he dead-sticked it into a hotel building.  It = was about=20 a week after the alternative engine fly-in at Ed's place in Paduka, KY.  As I recall, it was a = Glasair III=20 with a turbo-charged LS1.  I have video of a ground run around = here=20 somewhere.  Real sad story.  Can anyone confirm whether or = not it=20 was the same make psru?  I never read the final accident=20 report.

 

Mark=20

 

On Mon, = Jul 27,=20 2015 at 11:31 AM, Bill = Schertz=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

I went = back to the=20 exhibit buildings, and took some photos of the psru=E2=80=99s offered = by www.autopsrus.com . I will=20 forward these later today as every thing gets transferred . They are = spur gear=20 drive, have there own oil supply and pump, use pressure fed roller = bearings,=20 will provide oil for a constant speed prop, and are available in many=20 reduction ratios. They make a unit that can be straight through, = suitable for=20 the 13-B, the casing is CNC machined. They use a flywheel for the = torque=20 damping, and it has a centrifugal clutch that disengages the prop = below ~900=20 engine rpm, so when starting there is no prop load. Will likely be = heavier=20 than Tracy=E2=80=99s

 

I have = to reduce=20 the size of the pictures before I can send=20 them.

 

From: Tom Gillespie

Sent: Sunday, = July 26,=20 2015 1:59 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

<= /DIV>

 

Tracy,

   =20 That is very interesting! Could one be built specifically for my = combination=20 of a high HP 20 B? I would have more peace of mind knowing how it was = put=20 together by me along with your knowledge and experience. The thought = of=20 someone just starting out making them does not sit well with me as = they are an=20 unknown.

   Let=20 me know what you think and I will be in=20 touch.

Thanks = for your=20 time!

~~~tg~~~

 

 

From: Tracy = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 = 10:04=20 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Anyone or everyone in Oshkosh?

 

The = design is=20 royalty free.  Anyone who wants to build it is more than=20 welcome.   I can help with info if you need=20 it.

 

Tracy

Sent from my=20 iPad

 

<= /DIV>

This message, and the documents attached = hereto, is=20 intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or = confidential=20 information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you = have=20 received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we = may=20 correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank=20 you.

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6081 / = Virus=20 Database: 4392/10324 - Release Date:=20 07/28/15

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