X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173021pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.21] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.4) with ESMTPS id 7803630 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:11:15 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.21; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([71.164.185.6]) by vms173021.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0NQP00B7NM1FDI00@vms173021.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:10:29 -0500 (CDT) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=S6gku9YP c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=20weQFHSdBTlwctzPCQ/Gw==:117 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=oR5dmqMzAAAA:8 a=-9mUelKeXuEA:10 a=kUPQlYmSbg0A:10 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=9iDbn-4jx3cA:10 a=cKsnjEOsciEA:10 a=gZbpxnkM3yUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=4dfp_3eaj33NoBwQzEoA:9 a=C1qc95zzVq__L0u-:21 a=BIDeax0dyb1OX9i4:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=UY_rT7QyVW3280OMriwA:9 a=7ws5srL85Oxwxord:21 a=skHG0WLupLbgvxTN:21 a=tlZG_CGFp2h2xQH9:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: West Aussie Rotary Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:10:31 -0500 Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01D0B24B.73882D20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AdCyCU4wrzTBexd0RQiWVKHhPDazvAAaIoxw X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D0B24B.73882D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, That exhaust exit is not going to be my favorite with the fresh air inlet where it is. Be sure you include a CO2 monitor if you fly like that. You really have a small inlet for your cooling air. That should hold cooling drag down if you can get it to work. If you have air flowing thru one heat exchanger and not the other, you can include a guide vane inside the duct to separate the flow so it will flow equally or in whatever division you want. In the first iteration of my cooling attempts, I had my radiator mounted back at the firewall, leaning backward at the top so the radiator was about at a 30 degree angle and I ducted the air from the left nostril back and turned it so that it flowed back to front of the radiator and then it dumped into the inside of the cowl and exited at the bottom of the firewall. The oil cooler was a stock 13B cooler which I fed from the right nostril. This required the air to make a 360 degree turn after it entered the cowl..the air apparently didn't care for this arrangement and it didn't cool. :>( I now have the radiator mounted on the right side similar to Tracy's 20b, feeding from the left nostril, and some air from a scoop under the chin. The oil cooler is under the engine feeding from the chin scoop. This is pretty draggy, I would say at least 10 knots, but it cools even on hot days. If I were to do it again and I have no current plans to do so. I would put the radiator under the engine, fed from the chin scoop, the oil cooler on the right side fed form the right nostril, and install a cowl flap to regulate the air flow for drag improvement. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: West Aussie Rotary Ok, resized photo attached, see if this works. have to wait until I get back to town for under cowl photo's Charlie Airframe is Australian Lightwing SP4000 (only one in existance I think) all others are lighter weight versions, empty 650Kg MTOW 1100kg,B tube frame, non structural glass skin, aluminium wings, glass control surfaces, even has some wood for floor, so bits of everything. 210 litres fuel in 4 wing tanks. 2004 Renesis, RD1-c, EC2,EM2. GT electric CS prop. MGL iefis avionics & Comms. Bill Not sure how well this photo will show but air enters under spinner into divergent duct which turns up into wedge duct at firewall then flows forward through heat exchangers, oil cooler is out of the 20b Cosmo, air flows over/around engine to front of cowl and exits in low pressure area with help of cowl flaps, might work, might not. Exhaust was a bit of a dogs breakfast, couldn't exit underneath due to ducting taking up all the space, cabin fresh air inlet then dictated exhaust exit would be high on cowl, will suck and see how it goes and keep trimming length of exhaust until soot builds up on airframe. I'm skeptical about the 20b Cosmo oil cooler, fin spacing is closer than on radiator so I think it must add restriction so air might take least course of resistance through radiator. option may be to get new oil cooler with same core as radiator. oil cooler is 1/3rd size of radiator & they sit side by side across firewall, sharing air from ducting. Rich I don't think downstream blockage is the issue. oil cooler air has clear run along right side of engine,only things in the way is the ignition coils & 2 stoke oil tank ( to be removed as going for premixing of oil) would be more of issue for coolant air as that has the block, intake & exhaust manifolds to negotiate. putting thermocouples on is on the list to do. Martin Good to hear of another project in the making. Be good if Tracy decided to sell drawings for his drive if he cant get anyone to take on manufacture, plenty of places here capable of making them. just 1 off's will always be more expensive. or is Neil thinking of going into production of his? I got a 20b for next project which will need a drive also, once I find a suitable airframe. Andrew On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Charlie England wrote Hi Andrew,B Good to hear that another rotary is 'close' (to flying). I noticed the 1st line 'without photo'. Did earlier attempts bounce? I think the message size, including attachments, is around 200KB. Try resizing the image to 150K or smaller. If you need help resizing, let us know. There's a plugin for Win XP that makes it very easy; Win7/8 is a bit more convoluted but not that hard. I for one would love to see as many pics as you have time to send.B Please help those of us who are memory challenged & let us know which airframe. Runner length shouldn't be an issue (I hope it isn't; that's about the length of mine), since Tracy's Renesis uses intakes about that long. CharlieB ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D0B24B.73882D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrew,

=

That exhaust exit is not going to = be my favorite with the fresh air inlet where it is.  Be sure you include = a CO2 monitor if you fly like that.

You really have a small inlet for = your cooling air.  That should hold cooling drag down if you can get it = to work.   If you have air flowing thru one heat exchanger and = not the other, you can include a guide vane inside the duct to separate the flow = so it will flow equally or in whatever division you = want.

In the first iteration of my = cooling attempts, I had my radiator mounted back at the firewall, leaning = backward at the top so the radiator was about at a 30 degree angle and I ducted the = air from the left nostril back and turned it so that it flowed back to front = of the radiator and then it dumped into the inside of the cowl and exited at = the bottom of the firewall.  The oil cooler was a stock 13B cooler = which I fed from the right nostril.

This required the air to make a 360 = degree turn after it entered the cowl….the air apparently didn’t = care for this arrangement and it didn’t cool.  = :>(

 

I now have the radiator mounted on = the right side similar to Tracy’s 20b, feeding from the left nostril, and some air from a scoop under the chin.  The oil cooler is under the engine feeding from the chin scoop.  This is pretty draggy, I would say at least 10 knots, but = it cools even on hot days.

 

If I were to do it again and I have = no current plans to do so.  I would put the radiator under the engine, = fed from the chin scoop, the oil cooler on the right side fed form the right nostril, and install a cowl flap to regulate the air flow for drag = improvement.

Bill

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 28, = 2015 8:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = West Aussie Rotary

 

 

Ok, resized photo attached, see if this = works.

have to wait = until I get back to town for under cowl photo's

Charlie

Airframe is Australian Lightwing SP4000 (only one in existance I = think) all others are lighter weight versions,

empty 650Kg MTOW 1100kg,B tube frame, non structural glass skin, aluminium wings, glass control surfaces, even has some wood for floor, = so bits of everything.

210 litres fuel in 4 wing tanks.

2004 Renesis, RD1-c, EC2,EM2. GT electric CS = prop.

MGL iefis = avionics & Comms.

Bill

Not sure how well this photo will show but air enters under = spinner into divergent duct which turns up into wedge duct at firewall then = flows forward through heat exchangers, oil cooler is out of the 20b Cosmo, air = flows over/around engine to front of cowl and exits in low pressure area with = help of cowl flaps, might work, might not.

Exhaust was a = bit of a dogs breakfast, couldn't exit underneath due to ducting taking up all = the space, cabin fresh air inlet then dictated exhaust exit would be high on = cowl, will suck and see how it goes and keep trimming length of exhaust until = soot builds up on airframe.

I'm skeptical = about the 20b Cosmo oil cooler, fin spacing is closer than on radiator so I think = it must add restriction so air might take least course of resistance through = radiator. option may be to get new oil cooler with same core as radiator. oil = cooler is 1/3rd size of radiator & they sit side by side across firewall, = sharing air from ducting.

Rich

I don't think downstream blockage is the issue. oil cooler air = has clear run along right side of engine,only things in the way is the = ignition coils & 2 stoke oil tank ( to be removed as going for premixing of = oil) would be more of issue for coolant air as that has the block, intake = & exhaust manifolds to negotiate.

putting = thermocouples on is on the list to do.

Martin

Good to hear = of another project in the making. Be good if Tracy decided to sell drawings for his drive if he cant get anyone to take on manufacture, plenty of places here capable of making them. just 1 off's = will always be more expensive. or is Neil thinking of going into production = of his? I got a 20b for next project which will need a drive also, once I find a suitable airframe.

Andrew

On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote

 


Hi Andrew,B

 

Good to hear that another rotary is 'close' (to flying). I = noticed the 1st line 'without photo'. Did earlier attempts bounce? I think the = message size, including attachments, is around 200KB. Try resizing the image to = 150K or smaller. If you need help resizing, let us know. There's a plugin for = Win XP that makes it very easy; Win7/8 is a bit more convoluted but not that = hard. I for one would love to see as many pics as you have time to send.B =

 

Please help those of us who are memory challenged & let us = know which airframe. Runner length shouldn't be an issue (I hope it isn't; = that's about the length of mine), since Tracy's Renesis uses intakes about that long.

 

CharlieB

 

 

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