X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Tracy" Received: from mail-yk0-f173.google.com ([209.85.160.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7739597 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:52:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.173; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by yken206 with SMTP id n206so50729628yke.2 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 04:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:from:content-type:in-reply-to:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=7Gju4S0Tw+b1cFZUv99uZaIjpIqIw7tqAzOwMmMTJks=; b=uchkBArCDgAt/LgL3qJZ8KXGZpKHvj/fTw+svADar0H8ZL1PiQwu2JZAvxhzjZpmmJ k6S0J5s54kl1ciZ1LJYzXzocNaTKJ3s8/fm/Gu+PeGYHk6YD4vQZbf/CMmaPphCBwTnB PWk+kjnKSfkW9mRMZBrKlKOlxU74LgP/rQuFCGer58w8+zMf94ujHdF1Qn0g16LrBocW FYcdppilZkw9IWYeTH3wP919Uz8rqCjE8fncfCRikFkkQGBgMfJJkBV/DIvV+VUIhwGV LPxsMHAksoOQfyjl/WA+3JqlXllmGfmU+Vj0PxjkbAdbsA1CDNAxadKE22us4nUdFe41 zf6Q== X-Received: by 10.13.213.212 with SMTP id x203mr15168234ywd.174.1433764325036; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 04:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.155] (adsl-98-70-200-27.gnv.bellsouth.net. [98.70.200.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id q190sm1553739ywf.52.2015.06.08.04.52.02 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jun 2015 04:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B1C41C5B-2DC2-408C-9AF8-265A0FF26482 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (12F69) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 07:52:00 -0400 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-B1C41C5B-2DC2-408C-9AF8-265A0FF26482 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yep, 100 hp per 10gal, but that is at best power mixture & wot conditions. = I think we do a bit better than that at leaner mixtures. Tracy Sent from my iPad > On Jun 8, 2015, at 06:33, Mark Steitle wrote= : >=20 > Bill, > That sounds a bit optimistic based on my fuel burn. Tracy has a SWAG that= says you'll produce 100 hp for every 10 gph. At cruise I'm burning about 1= 1.5 - 12.5 gph, so I figure I'm producing around 110- 125 hp at 5100 -5200 r= pm. This results in an IAS of 200 - 210 mph, depending on CG. This is compa= rable to the IO-540 Lancair ES.=20 >=20 > By comparison, the Lancair Columbia 300, which is based on the same airfra= me as the Lancair ES, with an IO-550-N2B (6 cyl, 1 turbo, 3-blade c/s prop) c= ruising at 75% power, shows at 191 kts at 18,000 MSL. The IO-550-N is rated= at 310 hp at 2700 rpm. If you believe Continental's numbers, 75% of 310 is= 232 hp, which is closer to your numbers than to mine.=20 >=20 > =46rom a different approach, if I'm burning 12 gph, at .57 BSFC, that work= s out to 126 hp, much closer to what we get using Tracy's SWAG method. One o= ther thing, the Columbia numbers are at 18000 MSL while mine are at 6500 MSL= . =20 >=20 > Mark >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 >> On Jun 7, 2015, at 5:37 PM, Bill Bradburry w= rote: >>=20 >> Mark, >> =20 >> Here is a dyno chart where a semi p-port (I don=E2=80=99t know what that m= eans) 20B is making about 190 hp at 5100 rpm. Do you think that is about wh= at your engine is doing based on your plane=E2=80=99s performance vs ESs wit= h IO-550s in them? >> =20 >> Bill >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 >> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 5:13 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question >> =20 >> Rich, >> I've been running a constant speed M/T on my. 3-rotor for years now. I ty= pically adjust prop rpm for a max of 7k rpm for takeoff, WOT. Once a climb h= as been established I bring the rpm down to around 6k for the remainder of c= limb. For cruise, I leave throttle set to WOT, but set rpm via prop setting t= o give 5100 rpm. For sightseeing flights, I'll back off the throttle to giv= e around 150 kts.=20 >> =20 >> Mark >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >>> On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:33 AM, ARGOLDMAN wrot= e: >>> Greetings genlepeople of the rotary pursuasion, >>> =20 >>> For those of you using variable pitch (C/S) props, an operating question= that has been bugging me. Perhaps the collective wisdom of this group can s= et my mind at rest. >>> =20 >>> In piston aircraft engines, the concept of running over squared MP vs R= PM has been heavily questioned to the extent that some suggest running at fu= ll throttle all the time and controlling the power output via RPM (within re= ason). The thought is to, I believe, eliminate the induction restriction of t= he butterfly valve increasing the efficiency. >>> =20 >>> Now we have a rotor spinning, a gear box gearing and a propeller propell= ing. Does this concept hold true for the rotaries. What are people doing in t= erms of setting power after take off (full throttle max RPM). >>> =20 >>> My enquiring and rotating mind wants to know.=20 >>> =20 >>> (Unturbocharged Renesis with RD1-c Box) >>> =20 >>> Thanks >>> =20 >>> Rich --Apple-Mail-B1C41C5B-2DC2-408C-9AF8-265A0FF26482 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yep, 100 hp per 10gal, but that is at b= est power mixture & wot conditions.   I think we do a bit better th= an that at leaner mixtures.

Tracy

Sent from m= y iPad

On Jun 8, 2015, at 06:33, Mark Steitle <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :

Bill,
That sounds a= bit optimistic based on my fuel burn.  Tracy has a SWAG that says you'= ll produce 100 hp for every 10 gph.  At cruise I'm burning about 11.5 -= 12.5 gph, so I figure I'm producing around 110- 125 hp at 5100 -5200 rpm. &= nbsp;This results in an IAS of 200 - 210 mph, depending on CG. This is compa= rable to the IO-540 Lancair ES. 

By comparison= , the Lancair Columbia 300, which is based on the same airframe as the Lanca= ir ES, with an IO-550-N2B (6 cyl, 1 turbo, 3-blade c/s prop) cruising at 75%= power, shows at 191 kts at 18,000 MSL.  The IO-550-N is rated at 310 h= p at 2700 rpm.  If you believe Continental's numbers, 75% of 310 is 232= hp, which is closer to your numbers than to mine. 

=46rom a different approach, if I'm burning 12 gph, at .57 BSFC, that w= orks out to 126 hp, much closer to what we get using Tracy's SWAG method. &n= bsp;One other thing, the Columbia numbers are at 18000 MSL while mine are at= 6500 MSL.  

Mark


Sent from m= y iPad

On Jun 7, 2015, at 5:37 PM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:

=

Mark,

 

Here is a dyno chart where a semi p-por= t (I don=E2=80=99t know what that means) 20B is making about 190 hp at 5100 rpm.&= nbsp; Do you think that is about what your engine is doing based on your plane=E2=80= =99s performance vs ESs with IO-550s in them?

 

Bill

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 5= :13 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: new operating question

 

Rich,

I've been running a constant speed M/T on my. 3-rotor for years now.= I typically adjust prop rpm for a max of 7k rpm for takeoff, WOT.  Once a= climb has been established I bring the rpm down to around 6k for the remaind= er of climb. For cruise, I leave throttle set to WOT, but set rpm via prop sett= ing to give 5100 rpm.  For sightseeing flights, I'll back off the throttle t= o give around 150 kts. 

 

Mark

Sent from my iPad


On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:33 AM, ARGOLDMAN <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Greetings genlepeople of the rotary pursuasion,

 

For those of you using variable pitch (C/S) props, an operating question that has been bugging me. Perhaps the collective wisdom of this group can set my mind at rest.

 

In piston aircraft engines, the concep= t of running over squared  MP vs RPM has been heavily questioned to t= he extent that some suggest running at full throttle all the time and controlli= ng the power output via RPM (within reason). The thought is to, I believe, eliminate the induction restriction of the butterfly valve increasing the ef= ficiency.

 

Now we have a rotor spinning, a gear b= ox gearing and a propeller propelling. Does this concept hold true for the rotaries. What are people doing in terms of setting power after take off (fu= ll throttle max RPM).

 

My enquiring and rotating mind wants t= o know. 

 

(Unturbocharged Renesis with RD1-c Box= )

 

Thanks

 

Rich

= --Apple-Mail-B1C41C5B-2DC2-408C-9AF8-265A0FF26482--