Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #60466
From: Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Water Temp
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:36:49 +0000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Neil,

 

The bypass thermostat is the stock Mazda thermostat.  There is a drawing attached to the end of 11 Mar 2012 message 57598 in the archives showing the bypass thermostat operation:

 

http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/Message/57598.html?Language=

 

This message can also be found by searching the archives for "thermostat": 

 

I modified the 13B water pump housing and thermostat cover to use the 180 degree Renesis thermostat rather than the 190 degree one used in the 13B.

 

Steve

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Neil Unger <neil.unger@bigpond.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Water Temp
 
Steve,
             Not sure what you mean by a “bypass” thermostat.  The ones in your photo look like a normal thermostat with two holes drilled in the top plate.  Can you explain please, as I am totally ignorant.  Thanks Neil.
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:51 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Water Temp

For me, the best solution to controlling the coolant temp has been to use a 180 degree bypass type thermostat.  On a recent flight with 20 degree OAT, the coolant temperature, as measured in the water pump housing just below the thermostat, rapidly warmed up to 183 degrees for idle and taxi, peaked at 190 degrees during take off and climb, and stabilized at 185 degrees in cruise. 

 

One issue with the bypass thermostat was oscillation of the thermostat valve caused by the pressure difference across the bypass plate when the bypass was nearly closed.  This produced a clicking sound  in cruise and was felt as a shudder in the airframe.  Pulsing pressure was observed when connecting a gauge to the area between the water pump and the thermostat.  The pulses caused fatigue failure of the RX7 heater core located in the cockpit.  This may or may not occur depending on the spring constant of the particular thermostat.  After modification of the thermostat bypass plate as shown in the attached photo, no oscillation or pressure pulsing has been observed and no damage to the replacement heater core has occurred.  The area of the bypass plate was reduced by the modification but it was still large enough to completely block the bypass passage.

 

Another possibility is to block the bypass passage and use a non-bypass thermostat.  Although this eliminated the oscillation and pressure pulses, this may not be the best option since the overall flow rate of coolant through the engine will be reduced until the thermostat is fully open.  When the coolant flowing through the engine is unrestricted as is always the case with a bypass thermostat, the temperature rise through the engine at flight power levels is always close to 10 degrees due to the mixing of warm coolant from the bypass and the cool coolant from the radiator.  If the temperature cannot be completely controlled by the thermostat, the temperature will be seen to rise, but the temperature difference through the engine will still be close to 10 degrees.  With a non-bypass thermostat and the bypass passage blocked, the temperature difference between the coolant entering the engine block and the coolant exiting the block can be 60 degrees or more in cruise.

 

Eliminating the thermostat completely and blocking the bypass passage is another option.  In this case, the coolant temperature difference entering and exiting the engine will always be around 10 degrees or less, with the average temperature determined by the air side of the heat exchanger.  Controlling the temperature with a cockpit adjustable cowl exit flap was difficult, not completely effective, and significantly added to the pilot workload compared to using the bypass thermostat.

 

The few thermostat failures I have encountered were not sudden complete failures.  They resulted in the thermostat failing to completely close when cold.  I have not had a failure of the thermostat in the aircraft so far in about 350 hr of operation.

 
Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

 

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of shipchief@aol.com <shipchief@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:45 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Water Temp
 
Today I got a chance to sneak out to the airport and play.
The RV-8 cowl was off due to changing the oil, so I gave it a pretty good inspection, reassembled it and started it up.
I was planning to do a tethered trial at take off power, but the weather was clear and cold with low overcast and no wind, so I taxied about while waiting for the engine to warm up.
It never warmed up. The oil temp came up to about 156F, but the water temp came up to 128F while idling or slow taxiing. I did 4 aborted take off, the water temp rose to about 138F.
I have heard that this is not warm enough for full power. I did accelerate to 4850 RPM (2200+ prop RPM) before I let off the brakes and concentrated on rolling down the runway, lifting the tail and throttling back @ about 45 MPH.
I don't have a thermostat in it right now, the one try with a thermostat ended in an overheat shut down before damage. maybe I didn't have all the air pockets burped out. So I might have removed it prematurely.
What does the group say about warm up before take off, and about using a thermostat?


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