X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.168.143] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTP id 6643268 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 02:59:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.168.143; envelope-from=neil.unger@bigpond.com Received: from nskntcmgw06p ([61.9.169.166]) by nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20131218075843.TDBF2195.nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntcmgw06p> for ; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 07:58:43 +0000 Received: from UserPC ([124.183.134.117]) by nskntcmgw06p with BigPond Outbound id 2vyf1n00C2Y8Xxo01vyfU9; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 07:58:42 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=Obga/2vY c=1 sm=1 a=Gi6WiJGSWbH5fql+XEJcDA==:17 a=OzXLeJEqH2YA:10 a=JDadKst33uMA:10 a=1IlZJK9HAAAA:8 a=vbD3ISPJ1ycA:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=6YAfNXIdrQQFqFpgaQoA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=QMNjQMLkZfIz64m_BuMA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=LuQl-de0F22TwTIx:21 a=Gi6WiJGSWbH5fql+XEJcDA==:117 Message-ID: From: "Neil Unger" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Cooling Water Temp Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:58:34 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEFC23.26A02F10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEFC23.26A02F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thermostats are a touchy subject apparently. Most say to definitely not = put one in, but in 50 years plus of driving everything from cars to = heavy machinery, I have yet to have one fail. Now I find myself in the = same position as yourself with a rotary that is too cool. there must be = only the two of us in the world. Yes I also have too much cooling drag = but am now restricting the air inlet to try and get the cooling right = for my summer temps, and reduce the cooling drag. Today I cut the inlet = back to 80 square inches or 18% / 20% of total exchanger area. It = appears that I may have to restrict further yet! I ran it on the ground = at 4000 Rpm expecting it to overheat, stationery, but the water only got = to 180 degrees and the oil to 165 degrees( 100 degrees OAT). My cowl = flaps only make about 8 degrees difference. Did not fly as it is = possible that my computer A may have died. Ran everything on computer B. = My aim is to get the cooling right for the 115 degrees that is possible = in summer here by restricting the air to the heat exchangers, possibly = take off the cowl flaps and put a thermostat in the line next to the = water pump for winter temps. I may also have a second setting for the = inlet restriction to restrict the air more for winter as well, for is = only 5 screws to change the position of the air inlet. My aim is this. = To get normal cooling as close as possible to perfect without the need = for a thermostat, then put one in to accelerate the motors initial = heating up from cold and to maintain that temp at altitude without the = need for cowl flaps, even though I already have them. Neil. From: shipchief@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:45 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Water Temp Today I got a chance to sneak out to the airport and play.=20 The RV-8 cowl was off due to changing the oil, so I gave it a pretty = good inspection, reassembled it and started it up. I was planning to do a tethered trial at take off power, but the weather = was clear and cold with low overcast and no wind, so I taxied about = while waiting for the engine to warm up. It never warmed up. The oil temp came up to about 156F, but the water = temp came up to 128F while idling or slow taxiing. I did 4 aborted take = off, the water temp rose to about 138F. I have heard that this is not warm enough for full power. I did = accelerate to 4850 RPM (2200+ prop RPM) before I let off the brakes and = concentrated on rolling down the runway, lifting the tail and throttling = back @ about 45 MPH.=20 I don't have a thermostat in it right now, the one try with a thermostat = ended in an overheat shut down before damage. maybe I didn't have all = the air pockets burped out. So I might have removed it prematurely.=20 What does the group say about warm up before take off, and about using a = thermostat? ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CEFC23.26A02F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thermostats are a touchy subject apparently. Most say to definitely = not put=20 one in, but in 50 years plus of driving everything from cars to heavy = machinery,=20 I have yet to have one fail.  Now I find myself in the same = position as=20 yourself with a rotary that is too cool. there  must be only the = two of us=20 in the world.  Yes I also have too much cooling drag but am now = restricting=20 the air inlet to try and get the cooling right for my summer temps, and = reduce=20 the cooling drag. Today I cut the inlet back to 80 square inches or 18% = / 20% of=20 total exchanger area. It appears that I may have to restrict further = yet! =20 I ran it on the ground at 4000 Rpm expecting it to overheat, stationery, = but the=20 water only got to 180 degrees and the oil to 165 degrees( 100 degrees=20 OAT).  My cowl flaps only make about 8 degrees difference.  = Did not=20 fly as it is possible that my computer A may have died. Ran everything = on=20 computer B. My aim is to get the cooling right for the 115 degrees that = is=20 possible in summer here by restricting the air to the heat exchangers, = possibly=20 take off the cowl flaps and put a thermostat in the line next to the = water pump=20 for winter temps.  I may also have a second setting for the inlet=20 restriction to restrict the air more for winter as well, for is only 5 = screws to=20 change the position of the air inlet.  My aim is this. To get = normal=20 cooling as close as possible to perfect without the need for a = thermostat, then=20 put one in to accelerate  the motors initial heating up from cold = and to=20 maintain that temp at altitude without the need for cowl flaps, even = though I=20 already have them.   Neil.
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:45 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Water Temp
 
Today I got a chance to sneak out = to the=20 airport and play.
The RV-8 cowl was off due to changing the oil, so I gave it a = pretty good=20 inspection, reassembled it and started it up.
I was planning to do a tethered trial at take off power, but the = weather=20 was clear and cold with low overcast and no wind, so I taxied about = while=20 waiting for the engine to warm up.
It never warmed up. The oil temp came up to about 156F, but the = water temp=20 came up to 128F while idling or slow taxiing. I did 4 aborted take off, = the=20 water temp rose to about 138F.
I have heard that this is not warm enough for full power. I did = accelerate=20 to 4850 RPM (2200+ prop RPM) before I let off the brakes and = concentrated on=20 rolling down the runway, lifting the tail and throttling back @ about 45 = MPH.=20
I don't have a thermostat in it right now, the one try with a = thermostat=20 ended in an overheat shut down before damage. maybe I didn't have all = the air=20 pockets burped out. So I might have removed it prematurely.
What does the group say about warm up before take off, and about = using a=20 thermostat?
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