X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6639178 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 14:31:39 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.177; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id vb8so3301363obc.36 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=qe2z8N0w0ihQLk+IeUR/Sf5FqpVDmZm7QLvUmypXGEI=; b=GUqy4LFU0ZBFYYrmMB1QCknQy3U7hbXBj1qguAgV3r2RdIridbGWoTKXIwP45U4UI8 NQwvFcn8HmT0AbjRnIAPY4W0H8EBJtMfaUGdKKu2tfLC3sU1hjJaA8JKDEK+YV1TBuww 5hXyfLPwkCrDc0O+AEVQ6EyzGPWrMh4dko//BwJWD0S8Qj+v8hg4xoQ8KZyBbzS7FMXD VF/4H4sQPSK3c9q66pzW3VqYbrVAjsohoR3PYBOmEePJfF6YMKbppt7zrqJWQM6GyhuH v4dg+tfidDXDYUFRuVdmwj2Y9BoKbY4DB3cvXl5WQHCPaxXCwBYAZhGx54877dGY/zV0 6b/g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.84.132 with SMTP id z4mr6177504oby.49.1387049463380; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.144.168 with HTTP; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 11:31:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 13:31:03 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111c09a8cfec904ed839e09 --089e0111c09a8cfec904ed839e09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, Did you or Marcotte do the work on your redrive?? On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, wrote: > Charlie, you had me worried there for a minute, it looked like I would > need two auxiliary fuel tanks to get out of the pattern. I had the > Marcotte gear box ready to test and winter arrived here 6 weeks early, so > looks like a spring test period now. JohnD > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Charlie E > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:34 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > Oops! Fingers faster than brain syndrome. .45 to .48 (.5 to .6 at full > power, meaning low altitude, wide open, rated rpm). > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Tracy wrote: > > What Charlie said. Except move the decimal point left one place. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > On Dec 14, 2013, at 0:36, Charlie England wrote: > > I don't have a rotary flying yet, but rotaries follow the same physics > as other internal combustion engines. You can estimate your power > relatively easily by leaning for best power & measuring fuel flow. If > everything's right, with good intake & exhaust tuning, and low/mid power > settings like Tracy described, you can expect 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of fuel p= er > horsepower per hour. More pounds per HP if there are tuning issues or > improper leaning. > > Another way to do it with a common airframe like an RV or a Glastar is to > just get honest answers on fuel flow from others who are flying at the sa= me > speed in the same configuration. This is usually practical only with full > throttle numbers, because most Lycosaur operators are afraid to lean > properly. If they are running full throttle at rated rpm for the engine, > you know how much power they are making for speed X. If you can match the > speed, that's your HP. > > Charlie > > On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger wrote: > > gents, > Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not be too far > out at this stage. More flying and figures from summer turbulence! Takeo= ff > Rpm just over 6300, I think, and then found the mix was very lean. Had to > turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that fixed the very high EGT=92s as > well. The engine seems very happy in cruise at 5300 to 5600 depending on > how much fuel you want to use. 5400 rpm and 22.9 MAP and the fuel I havn= =92t > a clue as have been fiddling to get it to read Litres. Flew over 2 hours, > so will fill the tanks and get an idea at least, but going at a guess may > be around 7.9 Gph at anywhere between 3 and 5000 feet depending on the > thermals. I have a glastar, so only expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting > about 110 or possibly better. Then I have removed the wheel spats for > flight testing in case I had to land in someones rough paddock, so that m= ay > be a loss of 5 kts or more, then obviously have too much cooling drag as > today with 8 inches of my water exchanger blocked off, I could only get t= he > water to 160 degrees and oil at 155 degrees, and that is at OAT of high > 80=92s. Now to experiment at how much I can block off the inlet to get t= emps > up to 185. Tracy, your gear is brilliant, congratulations. Neil. > *From:* Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > > I get about 185 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the Renesis > at about 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a dive! :>) > > Bill > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Tracy > *Sent:* Friday, December 13, 2013 9:02 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > Speed about 165 - 175 mph, 6.5 - 7.5 GPH. These are the Renesis > numbers on RV-4, not the 20B RV-8. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Dec 13, 2013, at 19:14, Thomas Giddings wrote: > > Tracy: what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings > > Kind Regards > > Tom Giddings > > > On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy wrote: > > I typically cruise at 5400 - 5600 rpm. WOT at top speed (224 mph) rpm > is 7250. > > > Tracy > Sent from my iPad > > > On Dec 12, 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" wrote: > > tracy, > > If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What rpm do you > cruise at? Did you ever manage to get the monitor to record litres?? Ne= il. > > *From:* Tracy > > *Sent:* Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33 AM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > Using a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis. I get about 6000 on takeoff so I > would not say you have too much prop. possibly too little if that 6800 > rpm is accurate. 1800 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT & WOT. > > .75 oz per gal oil mix. > > Tracy > > > On Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" wrote: > > All, > > finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70=94 dia= by > 90 inch pitch. Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the EGT is pushing > over the 1850 degrees. Obviously the prop is too big as revs are > restricted and the motor is working too hard hence the EGT. What size > props are you people running?? 2 rotor renesis. Neil. > > *From:* David Leonard > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal. Why? That is what Trac= ydoes. Dont think it is very critical over the short term. I have gone > without oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan well. I have also put > multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 oz/gal) on one occasion when I > forgot to bring along any 2-stroke oil at all. > > Dave Leonard > > On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry > wrote: > > I use the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in non-ethanol > auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight hours. > > Bill B > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Clouduster > *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2013 9:17 AM > > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in > auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 500 +hrs. > > Dennis H. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jul 25, 2013, at 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com wrote: > > Greetings all, > > For those of you who are actually flying and have some time on your > rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle oil: > > 1) what oil are you using > > 2) why that brand > > 3) what ratios are you using > > 4 where is the best place to get it > > Thanks > > Rich > > > > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > -- --089e0111c09a8cfec904ed839e09 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John,
=A0 =A0Did you or Marcotte do the work on your r= edrive??


On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 9:29 AM, <downing.j@sbcglobal.net><= /span> wrote:
Charlie, you had me worried there for a minute, i= t=20 looked like I would need two auxiliary fuel tanks to get out of the=20 pattern.=A0 I had the Marcotte gear box ready to test and winter arrived he= re=20 6 weeks early, so looks like a spring test period now.=A0 JohnD
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charlie E=20
Sent: = Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:34=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle=20 premix

Oops! Fingers faster than brain syndrome. .45 to .48 (.5 to .6 at fu= ll=20 power, meaning low altitude, wide open, rated rpm).

Sent from my= =20 iPhone

On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

What Charlie said. =A0 Except move the decimal point left one=20 place.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 14, 2013, at 0:36, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

I don't have a rotary flying yet, but rotaries=20 follow the same physics as other internal combustion engines. You can= =20 estimate your power relatively easily by leaning for best power &= =20 measuring fuel flow. If everything's right, with good intake &= ; exhaust=20 tuning, and low/mid power settings like Tracy described, you can expe= ct=20 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. More pounds per HP= if=20 there are tuning issues or improper leaning.

Another way to d= o it=20 with a common airframe like an RV or a Glastar is to just get honest= =20 answers on fuel flow from others who are flying at the same speed in = the=20 same configuration. This is usually practical only with full throttle= =20 numbers, because most Lycosaur operators are afraid to lean properly.= If=20 they are running full throttle at rated rpm for the engine, you know = how=20 much power they are making for speed X. If you can match the speed, t= hat's=20 your HP.

Charlie

On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger=20 wrote:
=20 =20 =20 =20
gents,
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not be too far out at= this=20 stage. More flying and figures from summer turbulence!=A0 Takeoff R= pm=20 just over 6300, I think, and then found the mix was very lean. Had = to=20 turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that fixed the very high EGT= =92s as=20 well.=A0 The engine seems very happy in cruise at 5300 to 5600=20 depending on how much fuel you want to use. 5400 rpm and 22.9 MAP a= nd=20 the fuel I havn=92t a clue as have been fiddling to get it to read = Litres.=20 Flew over 2 hours, so will fill the tanks and get an idea at least,= but=20 going at a guess may be around 7.9 Gph at anywhere between 3 and 50= 00=20 feet depending on the thermals.=A0 I have a glastar, so only=20 expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting about 110 or possibly better. = Then=20 I have removed the wheel spats for flight testing in case I had to = land=20 in someones rough paddock, so that may be a loss of 5 kts or more, = then=20 obviously have too much cooling drag as today with 8 inches of my w= ater=20 exchanger blocked off, I could only get the water to 160 degrees an= d oil=20 at 155 degrees, and that is at OAT of high 80=92s.=A0 Now to experi= ment=20 at how much I can block off the inlet to get temps up to=20 185.=A0=A0 Tracy, your gear is brilliant, congratulations.=A0=20 Neil.=20
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix
=A0

I get about 185=20 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the Renesis at about= =20 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a dive!=A0=20 :>)

Bill=20

Speed about 165 - 175 mph,=A0 6.5 - 7.5=20 GPH.=A0=A0 These are the Renesis numbers on RV-4, not the 20B=20 RV-8.

Tracy

Sent=20 from my iPad

Tracy<= /u>:=20 what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings

Kind=20 Regards

Tom=20 Giddings


On Dec 13,= =20 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>= =20 wrote:

I typical= ly cruise at 5400 - 5600=20 rpm.=A0=A0 WOT at top speed (224 mph) rpm is=20 7250.


Tracy
Sent from my=20 iPad


On Dec 1= 2,=20 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>=20 wrote:

tracy<= span style=3D"font-family:calibri">,

=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What rpm do you crui= se=20 at?=A0=A0 Did you ever manage to get the monitor to record=20 litres?? Neil.

=

From: T= racy=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33=20 AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle=20 premix

<= /u>

Using=20 a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis.=A0 I get about 6000 on takeof= f=20 so I would not say you have too much prop.=A0=A0 possibly=20 too little if that 6800 rpm is accurate.=A0=A0=A0 1800=20 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT &=20 WOT.

<= /u>

.75 oz=20 per gal oil mix.

<= /u>

Tracy<= span style=3D"font-family:calibri">

<= /u>


On=20 Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>=20 wrote:

All,

=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=20 finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70=94= dia by=20 90 inch pitch.=A0 Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the= =20 EGT is pushing over the 1850 degrees.=A0 Obviously the prop= =20 is too big as revs are restricted and the motor is working = too=20 hard hence the EGT.=A0 What size props are you people=20 running??=A0 2 rotor renesis.=A0=20 Neil.

I=20 use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal.=A0 Why?=A0=20 That is what Tracy does.=A0 Don= t think it=20 is very critical over the short term.=A0 I have gone withou= t=20 oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan well.=A0 I hav= e also=20 put multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 oz/gal) on o= ne=20 occasion when I forgot to bring along any 2-stroke oil at= =20 all.

=

Dave=20 Leonard

On=20 Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth= .net>=20 wrote:

= I use=20 the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in=20 non-ethanol auto gas.=A0 My engine is a Renesis with 70=20 flight hours.

= Bill=20 B=

Fro= m:=20 Rotary motors in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Clouduster
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013=20 9:17 AM =


To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2=20 cycle premix=20

I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM=20 and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in auto gas.=A0 = My=20 engine is a Renesis with 500=20 +hrs.

Dennis H.

Sent from=20 my iPad


On Jul 25, 2013, at=20 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com=20 wrote:

Greetings=20 all,

For=20 those of you who are actually flying and have some time o= n=20 your rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle=20 oil:

1)=A0=20 what oil are you using

2)=A0=A0=20 why that brand

3)=A0=A0=20 what ratios are you using

4=A0=A0=A0=20 where is the best place to get it

Thanks

Rich




--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6=20 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net=20





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