X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm10-vm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([216.109.114.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with SMTP id 6638915 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:29:45 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.109.114.211; envelope-from=downing.j@sbcglobal.net Received: from [66.196.81.166] by nm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:29:09 -0000 Received: from [98.138.104.100] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:29:09 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp120.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Dec 2013 15:29:09 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sbcglobal.net; s=s1024; t=1387034949; bh=u2eXvvTpTKJMKZjYz3jPQu/Q+gnCXBfvigb7MbRC7NI=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=biPfXmXJBdkpP/DF0bcdPiq6GMAW78xdCMrfos6gwE1VXEHHUhhiYxvVAlLlCCubHsspmooWjtt78kjOIQKyRa+RNwEwFTBTR3xWiWfdcf6gZEZOdxDoZdGOTjbKZg5mtI9oh2g92mKOmsbBPXO3nvTKXlLqfCwmSKJwSTK9mBA= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 189640.12726.bm@smtp120.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 5pN.xk0VM1msEFSBlHth7BJgot1vJKJI9qJwc7MnkfHhOZ9 AbPySClJeyTIzJuGvcg3aQY9URR7uigvlSsjH3z76vV27enqeWfR1g09bvct z1FqQEhvsa_qY8FLwIg78fzxTL2MFkTHDTgHnU28Qd3yhbxoKAmsnyD2NpTi Zme.BCDmK2Juo4e3KgOLCedx1It1bcL91_seOtfnVI9aqroY5aKv3kQHVADe hVm6NMg9l2reHumY3nKBpu6s2oGK1tnBIBS3ExKD9jTkJOmBClFV9e.fzI5A lUiRhcd77wgykLGfXE.HsgXTCh1YfaND2uRBXf9CATxt12d5yAJI_8PDWjcR eAE.O.VU5.M2_V.irQjvWoxe3V5y9VnGG08VVjX1rSCwCPquCiBCFHFA8Bm4 Fzhro6FQQYnUhxfoTJrH9As9UzWWQ5v1CXRNtVt8vjHuLlhYn1RaG_YU0cEr JPPW3EnLKeSFsXWW0A8dKhALySbx6VnAg4ool79t.6NpSQYc_QSVd2W0Fuwj 5fY8nOnFUADMe_OoqqwCyVvS_ntBY0JoST72H5Bqtu_uQ35EJY2dvwWbqfEj vAH636yq7j4KP9pJ1yLUFDpfyVqlUY9h.dYwy4yR0sZS4t0eThCTODGLM5U1 fU7c.d2hx.lGJvwTwqcc- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 4Ss7WYSswBAR3ULsDHPw5yIFKkoakpn6PCJcwuPp3izwMVSl X-Rocket-Received: from JohnPC (downing.j@75.5.229.5 with plain [98.138.84.52]) by smtp120.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Dec 2013 15:29:09 +0000 UTC Message-ID: From: To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 10:29:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEF8B7.532B66E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEF8B7.532B66E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, you had me worried there for a minute, it looked like I would = need two auxiliary fuel tanks to get out of the pattern. I had the = Marcotte gear box ready to test and winter arrived here 6 weeks early, = so looks like a spring test period now. JohnD ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charlie E=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:34 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix Oops! Fingers faster than brain syndrome. .45 to .48 (.5 to .6 at full = power, meaning low altitude, wide open, rated rpm). Sent from my iPhone On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Tracy wrote: What Charlie said. Except move the decimal point left one place. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Dec 14, 2013, at 0:36, Charlie England = wrote: I don't have a rotary flying yet, but rotaries follow the same = physics as other internal combustion engines. You can estimate your = power relatively easily by leaning for best power & measuring fuel flow. = If everything's right, with good intake & exhaust tuning, and low/mid = power settings like Tracy described, you can expect 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of = fuel per horsepower per hour. More pounds per HP if there are tuning = issues or improper leaning.=20 Another way to do it with a common airframe like an RV or a = Glastar is to just get honest answers on fuel flow from others who are = flying at the same speed in the same configuration. This is usually = practical only with full throttle numbers, because most Lycosaur = operators are afraid to lean properly. If they are running full throttle = at rated rpm for the engine, you know how much power they are making for = speed X. If you can match the speed, that's your HP. Charlie On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger wrote: gents, Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not = be too far out at this stage. More flying and figures from summer = turbulence! Takeoff Rpm just over 6300, I think, and then found the mix = was very lean. Had to turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that fixed = the very high EGT=E2=80=99s as well. The engine seems very happy in = cruise at 5300 to 5600 depending on how much fuel you want to use. 5400 = rpm and 22.9 MAP and the fuel I havn=E2=80=99t a clue as have been = fiddling to get it to read Litres. Flew over 2 hours, so will fill the = tanks and get an idea at least, but going at a guess may be around 7.9 = Gph at anywhere between 3 and 5000 feet depending on the thermals. I = have a glastar, so only expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting about 110 = or possibly better. Then I have removed the wheel spats for flight = testing in case I had to land in someones rough paddock, so that may be = a loss of 5 kts or more, then obviously have too much cooling drag as = today with 8 inches of my water exchanger blocked off, I could only get = the water to 160 degrees and oil at 155 degrees, and that is at OAT of = high 80=E2=80=99s. Now to experiment at how much I can block off the = inlet to get temps up to 185. Tracy, your gear is brilliant, = congratulations. Neil.=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix I get about 185 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the = Renesis at about 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a = dive! :>) Bill=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 9:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix Speed about 165 - 175 mph, 6.5 - 7.5 GPH. These are the = Renesis numbers on RV-4, not the 20B RV-8. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Dec 13, 2013, at 19:14, Thomas Giddings = wrote: Tracy: what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings Kind Regards Tom Giddings On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy wrote: I typically cruise at 5400 - 5600 rpm. WOT at top speed = (224 mph) rpm is 7250. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Dec 12, 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" = wrote: tracy, If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What = rpm do you cruise at? Did you ever manage to get the monitor to record = litres?? Neil. From: Tracy=20 Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix Using a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis. I get about 6000 on = takeoff so I would not say you have too much prop. possibly too little = if that 6800 rpm is accurate. 1800 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT & = WOT. .75 oz per gal oil mix. Tracy On Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" = wrote: All, finally flying again, but my prop is too big. = It is a 70=E2=80=9D dia by 90 inch pitch. Max revs on takeoff is about = 6800 and the EGT is pushing over the 1850 degrees. Obviously the prop = is too big as revs are restricted and the motor is working too hard = hence the EGT. What size props are you people running?? 2 rotor = renesis. Neil. From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal. Why? = That is what Tracy does. Dont think it is very critical over the short = term. I have gone without oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan = well. I have also put multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 = oz/gal) on one occasion when I forgot to bring along any 2-stroke oil at = all. Dave Leonard On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: I use the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 = oz/gal in non-ethanol auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight = hours. Bill B ---------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Clouduster Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:17 AM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix=20 I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 = oz/ gal. Mixed in auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 500 +hrs. Dennis H. Sent from my iPad On Jul 25, 2013, at 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com wrote: Greetings all, For those of you who are actually flying and have some = time on your rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle oil: 1) what oil are you using 2) why that brand 3) what ratios are you using 4 where is the best place to get it Thanks Rich --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CEF8B7.532B66E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Charlie, you had me worried there for a = minute, it=20 looked like I would need two auxiliary fuel tanks to get out of the=20 pattern.  I had the Marcotte gear box ready to test and winter = arrived here=20 6 weeks early, so looks like a spring test period now.  = JohnD
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Charlie E=20
Sent: Saturday, December 14, = 2013 9:34=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 = cycle=20 premix

Oops! Fingers faster than brain syndrome. .45 to .48 (.5 to .6 at = full=20 power, meaning low altitude, wide open, rated rpm).

Sent from = my=20 iPhone

On Dec 14, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

What Charlie said.   Except move the decimal point left = one=20 place.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 14, 2013, at 0:36, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

I don't have a rotary flying yet, but = rotaries=20 follow the same physics as other internal combustion engines. You = can=20 estimate your power relatively easily by leaning for best power = &=20 measuring fuel flow. If everything's right, with good intake & = exhaust=20 tuning, and low/mid power settings like Tracy described, you can = expect=20 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. More pounds per = HP if=20 there are tuning issues or improper leaning.

Another way = to do it=20 with a common airframe like an RV or a Glastar is to just get = honest=20 answers on fuel flow from others who are flying at the same speed = in the=20 same configuration. This is usually practical only with full = throttle=20 numbers, because most Lycosaur operators are afraid to lean = properly. If=20 they are running full throttle at rated rpm for the engine, you = know how=20 much power they are making for speed X. If you can match the = speed, that's=20 your HP.

Charlie

On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger=20 wrote:
gents,
=
           &n= bsp;=20 Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not be too far out = at this=20 stage. More flying and figures from summer turbulence!  = Takeoff Rpm=20 just over 6300, I think, and then found the mix was very lean. = Had to=20 turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that fixed the very high = EGT=E2=80=99s as=20 well.  The engine seems very happy in cruise at 5300 to = 5600=20 depending on how much fuel you want to use. 5400 rpm and 22.9 = MAP and=20 the fuel I havn=E2=80=99t a clue as have been fiddling to get it = to read Litres.=20 Flew over 2 hours, so will fill the tanks and get an idea at = least, but=20 going at a guess may be around 7.9 Gph at anywhere between 3 and = 5000=20 feet depending on the thermals.  I have a glastar, so only=20 expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting about 110 or possibly = better. Then=20 I have removed the wheel spats for flight testing in case I had = to land=20 in someones rough paddock, so that may be a loss of 5 kts or = more, then=20 obviously have too much cooling drag as today with 8 inches of = my water=20 exchanger blocked off, I could only get the water to 160 degrees = and oil=20 at 155 degrees, and that is at OAT of high 80=E2=80=99s.  = Now to experiment=20 at how much I can block off the inlet to get temps up to=20 185.   Tracy, your gear is brilliant, = congratulations. =20 Neil.=20
From: Bill Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle = premix
 

I get = about 185=20 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the Renesis at = about=20 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a dive! =20 :>)

Bill=20

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20 On Behalf Of = Tracy
Sent: Friday, December = 13, 2013=20 9:02 PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = 2 cycle=20 premix

Speed about 165 - 175 mph,  6.5 - = 7.5=20 GPH.   These are the Renesis numbers on RV-4, not the = 20B=20 RV-8.

Tracy

Sent=20 from my iPad


On = Dec 13,=20 2013, at 19:14, Thomas=20 Giddings <n360tg@earthlink.net>=20 wrote:

Tracy:=20 what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings

Kind=20 Regards

Tom=20 Giddings


On Dec 13,=20 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

I typically cruise at 5400 - 5600=20 rpm.   WOT at top speed (224 mph) rpm is=20 7250.


Tracy
Sent from my=20 iPad


On Dec 12,=20 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>=20 wrote:

tracy,

            = If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What rpm do you = cruise=20 at?   Did you ever manage to get the monitor to = record=20 litres?? Neil.

From: Tracy=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33=20 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle=20 premix

Using=20 a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis.  I get about 6000 on = takeoff=20 so I would not say you have too much prop.   = possibly=20 too little if that 6800 rpm is accurate.    = 1800=20 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT &=20 WOT.

.75 oz=20 per gal oil mix.

Tracy


On=20 Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>=20 wrote:

All,

         =20 finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a = 70=E2=80=9D dia by=20 90 inch pitch.  Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 = and the=20 EGT is pushing over the 1850 degrees.  Obviously = the prop=20 is too big as revs are restricted and the motor is = working too=20 hard hence the EGT.  What size props are you people = running??  2 rotor renesis. =20 Neil.

From: David Leonard=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12=20 AM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle=20 premix

I=20 use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal.  = Why? =20 That is what Tracy does.  = Dont think it=20 is very critical over the short term.  I have gone = without=20 oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan well.  I = have also=20 put multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 oz/gal) = on one=20 occasion when I forgot to bring along any 2-stroke oil = at=20 all.

Dave=20 Leonard

On=20 Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

I use=20 the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in=20 non-ethanol auto gas.  My engine is a Renesis with = 70=20 flight hours.

Bill=20 B

From:=20 Rotary motors in=20 aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Clouduster
Sent: Friday, = July 26, 2013=20 9:17 AM


To: = Rotary motors in=20 aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 2=20 cycle premix=20

I use a 50 - 50 = mix of MM=20 and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in auto = gas.  My=20 engine is a Renesis with 500=20 +hrs.

Dennis = H.

Sent from=20 my iPad


On Jul 25, = 2013, at=20 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com=20 wrote:

Greetings=20 all,

For=20 those of you who are actually flying and have some = time on=20 your rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle=20 oil:

1) =20 what oil are you using

2)  =20 why that brand

3)  =20 what ratios are you using

4   =20 where is the best place to get it

Thanks

Rich

=



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary = RV-6=20 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net=20 =

<= /DIV>

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