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[98.95.170.117]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m68sm6838899yhj.22.2013.12.13.21.36.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 13 Dec 2013 21:36:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52ABEE5F.8030401@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:36:31 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060609090005050206020608" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060609090005050206020608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I don't have a rotary flying yet, but rotaries follow the same physics as other internal combustion engines. You can estimate your power relatively easily by leaning for best power & measuring fuel flow. If everything's right, with good intake & exhaust tuning, and low/mid power settings like Tracy described, you can expect 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. More pounds per HP if there are tuning issues or improper leaning. Another way to do it with a common airframe like an RV or a Glastar is to just get honest answers on fuel flow from others who are flying at the same speed in the same configuration. This is usually practical only with full throttle numbers, because most Lycosaur operators are afraid to lean properly. If they are running full throttle at rated rpm for the engine, you know how much power they are making for speed X. If you can match the speed, that's your HP. Charlie On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger wrote: > gents, > Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not be too > far out at this stage. More flying and figures from summer > turbulence! Takeoff Rpm just over 6300, I think, and then found the > mix was very lean. Had to turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that > fixed the very high EGT’s as well. The engine seems very happy in > cruise at 5300 to 5600 depending on how much fuel you want to use. > 5400 rpm and 22.9 MAP and the fuel I havn’t a clue as have been > fiddling to get it to read Litres. Flew over 2 hours, so will fill the > tanks and get an idea at least, but going at a guess may be around 7.9 > Gph at anywhere between 3 and 5000 feet depending on the thermals. I > have a glastar, so only expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting about 110 > or possibly better. Then I have removed the wheel spats for flight > testing in case I had to land in someones rough paddock, so that may > be a loss of 5 kts or more, then obviously have too much cooling drag > as today with 8 inches of my water exchanger blocked off, I could only > get the water to 160 degrees and oil at 155 degrees, and that is at > OAT of high 80’s. Now to experiment at how much I can block off the > inlet to get temps up to 185. Tracy, your gear is brilliant, > congratulations. Neil. > *From:* Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > I get about 185 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the > Renesis at about 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a > dive! :>) > > Bill > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *On Behalf Of *Tracy > *Sent:* Friday, December 13, 2013 9:02 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix > > Speed about 165 - 175 mph, 6.5 - 7.5 GPH. These are the Renesis > numbers on RV-4, not the 20B RV-8. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Dec 13, 2013, at 19:14, Thomas Giddings > wrote: > >> Tracy: what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings >> >> Kind Regards >> >> Tom Giddings >> >> >> On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy > > wrote: >> >>> I typically cruise at 5400 - 5600 rpm. WOT at top speed (224 mph) >>> rpm is 7250. >>> >>> >>> Tracy >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> >>> On Dec 12, 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" >> > wrote: >>> >>>> tracy, >>>> >>>> If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What rpm do you cruise >>>> at? Did you ever manage to get the monitor to record litres?? Neil. >>>> >>>> *From:*Tracy >>>> >>>> *Sent:*Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33 AM >>>> >>>> *To:*Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> >>>> *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix >>>> >>>> Using a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis. I get about 6000 on takeoff >>>> so I would not say you have too much prop. possibly too little if >>>> that 6800 rpm is accurate. 1800 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT & WOT. >>>> >>>> .75 oz per gal oil mix. >>>> >>>> Tracy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> All, >>>>> >>>>> finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70” dia by >>>>> 90 inch pitch. Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the EGT is >>>>> pushing over the 1850 degrees. Obviously the prop is too big as >>>>> revs are restricted and the motor is working too hard hence the >>>>> EGT. What size props are you people running?? 2 rotor renesis. >>>>> Neil. >>>>> >>>>> *From:*David Leonard >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM >>>>> >>>>> *To:*Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix >>>>> >>>>> I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal. Why? That is what >>>>> Tracy does. Dont think it is very critical over the short term. >>>>> I have gone without oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan >>>>> well. I have also put multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 >>>>> oz/gal) on one occasion when I forgot to bring along any 2-stroke >>>>> oil at all. >>>>> >>>>> Dave Leonard >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I use the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in >>>>> non-ethanol auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight hours. >>>>> >>>>> Bill B >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>>>> ] *On Behalf Of *Clouduster >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, July 26, 2013 9:17 AM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:*[FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix >>>>> >>>>> I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. >>>>> Mixed in auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 500 +hrs. >>>>> >>>>> Dennis H. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Greetings all, >>>>>> >>>>>> For those of you who are actually flying and have some time on >>>>>> your rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle oil: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) what oil are you using >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) why that brand >>>>>> >>>>>> 3) what ratios are you using >>>>>> >>>>>> 4 where is the best place to get it >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Rich >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> David Leonard >>>>> >>>>> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >>>>> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >>>>> http://RotaryRoster.net >>>>> --------------060609090005050206020608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I don't have a rotary flying yet, but rotaries follow the same physics as other internal combustion engines. You can estimate your power relatively easily by leaning for best power & measuring fuel flow. If everything's right, with good intake & exhaust tuning, and low/mid power settings like Tracy described, you can expect 4.5 to 4.8 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. More pounds per HP if there are tuning issues or improper leaning.

Another way to do it with a common airframe like an RV or a Glastar is to just get honest answers on fuel flow from others who are flying at the same speed in the same configuration. This is usually practical only with full throttle numbers, because most Lycosaur operators are afraid to lean properly. If they are running full throttle at rated rpm for the engine, you know how much power they are making for speed X. If you can match the speed, that's your HP.

Charlie

On 12/13/2013 11:05 PM, Neil Unger wrote:
gents,
             Many thanks for the figures. seems that I may not be too far out at this stage. More flying and figures from summer turbulence!  Takeoff Rpm just over 6300, I think, and then found the mix was very lean. Had to turn the mix Knob almost to 2,30 and that fixed the very high EGT’s as well.  The engine seems very happy in cruise at 5300 to 5600 depending on how much fuel you want to use. 5400 rpm and 22.9 MAP and the fuel I havn’t a clue as have been fiddling to get it to read Litres. Flew over 2 hours, so will fill the tanks and get an idea at least, but going at a guess may be around 7.9 Gph at anywhere between 3 and 5000 feet depending on the thermals.  I have a glastar, so only expecting 130 Kts. Currently getting about 110 or possibly better. Then I have removed the wheel spats for flight testing in case I had to land in someones rough paddock, so that may be a loss of 5 kts or more, then obviously have too much cooling drag as today with 8 inches of my water exchanger blocked off, I could only get the water to 160 degrees and oil at 155 degrees, and that is at OAT of high 80’s.  Now to experiment at how much I can block off the inlet to get temps up to 185.   Tracy, your gear is brilliant, congratulations.  Neil.
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:30 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix
 

I get about 185 mph and 8 GPH with my Lancair Legacy FG with the Renesis at about 5800-6000 RPM, but I doubt I could get 224 mph in a dive!  :>)

 

Bill

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 9:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix

 

Speed about 165 - 175 mph,  6.5 - 7.5 GPH.   These are the Renesis numbers on RV-4, not the 20B RV-8.

 

Tracy

Sent from my iPad


On Dec 13, 2013, at 19:14, Thomas Giddings <n360tg@earthlink.net> wrote:

Tracy: what speed and fuel burn at your cruise settings

Kind Regards

Tom Giddings

 

 


On Dec 13, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:

I typically cruise at 5400 - 5600 rpm.   WOT at top speed (224 mph) rpm is 7250.


Tracy
Sent from my iPad


On Dec 12, 2013, at 23:29, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com> wrote:

tracy,

            If you are happy with 6000 for take off, What rpm do you cruise at?   Did you ever manage to get the monitor to record litres?? Neil.

 

From: Tracy

Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:33 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix

 

Using a 74 x 88 2blade on my Renesis.  I get about 6000 on takeoff so I would not say you have too much prop.   possibly too little if that 6800 rpm is accurate.    1800 EGT is not unusual at peak EGT & WOT.

 

.75 oz per gal oil mix.

 

Tracy

 


On Dec 10, 2013, at 19:08, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com> wrote:

All,

          finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70” dia by 90 inch pitch.  Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the EGT is pushing over the 1850 degrees.  Obviously the prop is too big as revs are restricted and the motor is working too hard hence the EGT.  What size props are you people running??  2 rotor renesis.  Neil.

 

Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix

 

I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal.  Why?  That is what Tracy does.  Dont think it is very critical over the short term.  I have gone without oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan well.  I have also put multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 oz/gal) on one occasion when I forgot to bring along any 2-stroke oil at all.

 

Dave Leonard

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I use the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in non-ethanol auto gas.  My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight hours.

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Clouduster
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:17 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix

 

I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in auto gas.  My engine is a Renesis with 500 +hrs.

 

Dennis H.

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 25, 2013, at 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.com wrote:

Greetings all,

 

For those of you who are actually flying and have some time on your rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle oil:

 

1)  what oil are you using

2)   why that brand

3)   what ratios are you using

4    where is the best place to get it

 

Thanks

 

Rich




--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


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