X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.202] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6634216 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:01:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.202; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.13]) by omr-d05.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 374D57000009D for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:01:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-moc005c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-moc005.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.195.17]) by mtaomg-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E1BF5E000081 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:01:22 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: <514cd.36f374e6.3fd967c2@aol.com> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 02:01:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_514cd.36f374e6.3fd967c2_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 1028 X-Originating-IP: [96.58.5.136] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1386745283; bh=v7j93fmIr1x5+zsjJKV0mZbSVPr/oOuPwYsft6oId0o=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=w4gzvKquwb8vYi4DgqXZWeXvynF0QpEZ+zh4lPpJnNMRcMvKV5V/F6jAfvRj9mwQs XjIq1wcxbTiLvr5rW4dywzgLaY5IL+R5R22T/KiQUsfO2NiCSlcCe/j8j3z9q1g2rz s/32CoygHXzkqrW+/dhNQmByRKP/2yjeQcz97bnI= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290d52a80dc2392b --part1_514cd.36f374e6.3fd967c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Good data. Thank you. Darryl Drummond used to build every one of the Star = =20 Mazda engines.=20 =20 Note that 1600 degrees is the maximum used in racing. The stock Iron based = =20 seals may over heat and bow out in the center. They will not return to flat= =20 once overheated. Note also that the rear rotor is run at lower EGT. It is= =20 cooled by water already heated by the front rotor.=20 =20 If you have no EGT gages you are dancing on the pond without knowing how = =20 thick the ice is. =20 You want to know how effective the combustion process is, and EGT is the = =20 best way to do that.=20 =20 Timing can change EGT with no changes in mixture. You want peak cylinder = =20 pressure at about 50 degrees ATDC. So the timing changing with RPM would be= =20 ideal. So, late timing may allow mixture still burning to arrive at the EGT= =20 probe. This is not an accurate look at combustion temperatures. So if you= =20 see high EGTs reduce the timing for a second or so and see if the EGT goes up. Then bump it up a few =20 degrees and see if it goes down. Simple. =20 For take off and climb enough timing and mixtures in the 12s, EGTs in the = =20 16s or lower. Once at cruise altitude you can lean quickly through best =20 power to lean of peak EGT. Best power is too lean and produces the damaged = =20 seals, and a better chance to detonate the engine. So you stay rich of best= =20 power or lean of best power. Once at a stable speed and lean of peak EGT, y= ou =20 can try adding some more timing, because lean mixtures burn more slowly. =20 For every RPM and mixture, there is an ideal advance setting. Find it by = =20 watching the tachometer. This changes each day with OAT and barometric.=20 Tuning errors while lean of peak will not damage the engine. Tuning errors= while=20 rich of peak may damage the engine.=20 Lean of peak means less fuel being burned.Less power being produced. Lower = =20 coolant and oil temperatures, and lower top speed. The less fuel being burned is the feature you are looking for. =20 Think like the engine......be the engine....................... =20 Perhaps Tracy or Mr.Leonard could publish their procedures? =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 In a message dated 12/10/2013 8:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes: Neil This link has really good operating targets for our engine. They measure = =20 EGT at 3 inches.=20 Bobby=20 http://www.starmazda.com/competitors/2012/resources/2Aug2012RenesisTutorial= . pdf Sent from my iPad On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "Bobby J. Hughes" <_bhughes@qnsi.net_=20 (mailto:bhughes@qnsi.net) > wrote: MT electric three blade. I don't know what my peak EGT is at high power= =20 but it should occur at 14.7 F/A. I would be surprised if it was much over= =20 1700F.=20 Bobby Sent from my iPad On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:28 PM, "Neil Unger" <_neil.unger@bigpond.com_=20 (mailto:neil.unger@bigpond.com) > wrote: =20 =20 Bobby, Do you know your prop size?? Neil. =20 =20 =20 From: _Bobby J. Hughes_ (mailto:bhughes@qnsi.net) =20 Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:23 AM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix =20 =20 Neil =20 My EGT is usually around 1660 at 38", 7100 rpm, 12.5 F/A. I have seen one= =20 rotor go to 1700 with an injector imbalance too rich. One other time with= =20 a fouled plug. I think fuel was burning in the exhaust manifold.=20 =20 .80 oz per gallon.=20 =20 Bobby Hughes Renesis =20 =20 Sent from my iPad On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:10 PM, "Neil Unger" <_neil.unger@bigpond.com_=20 (mailto:neil.unger@bigpond.com) > wrote: =20 =20 All, finally flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70=E2=80= =9D dia by=20 90 inch pitch. Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the EGT is pushing = =20 over the 1850 degrees. Obviously the prop is too big as revs are =20 restricted and the motor is working too hard hence the EGT. What size pro= ps are you=20 people running?? 2 rotor renesis. Neil. =20 =20 =20 From: _David Leonard_ (mailto:wdleonard@gmail.com) =20 Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix =20 =20 I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal. Why? That is what Tracy= =20 does. Dont think it is very critical over the short term. I have gone=20 without oil for a tank or two when I didn't plan well. I have also put=20 multi-weight aviation engine oil in (at .5 oz/gal) on one occasion when I = forgot=20 to bring along any 2-stroke oil at all. =20 Dave Leonard On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bradburry =20 <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote: =20 I use the same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in non-ethanol= =20 auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight hours.=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Clouduster Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 9:17 AM =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix=20 =20 =20 =20 I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2 stroke @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in=20 auto gas. My engine is a Renesis with 500 +hrs. =20 =20 Dennis H. Sent from my iPad =20 On Jul 25, 2013, at 16:29, _ARGOLDMAN@aol.com_ (mailto:ARGOLDMAN@aol.com) = =20 wrote: =20 =20 =20 Greetings all, =20 =20 For those of you who are actually flying and have some time on your=20 rotaries and are using Pre-mix 2 cycle oil: =20 =20 1) what oil are you using =20 2) why that brand =20 3) what ratios are you using =20 4 where is the best place to get it =20 =20 Thanks =20 =20 Rich --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY _http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net_ (http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/)=20 _http://RotaryRoster.net_ (http://rotaryroster.net/) =20 --part1_514cd.36f374e6.3fd967c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Good data. Thank you. Darryl Drummond used to build every one of the S= tar=20 Mazda engines.
 
Note that 1600 degrees is the maximum used in racing. The stock Iron b= ased=20 seals may over heat and bow out in the center. They will not return to flat= once=20 overheated. Note also that the rear rotor is run at lower EGT. It is cooled= by=20 water already heated by the front rotor.
 
If you have no EGT gages you are dancing on the pond without knowing h= ow=20 thick the ice is.
 
You want to know how effective the combustion process is, and EGT is t= he=20 best way to do that.
 
Timing can change EGT with no changes in mixture. You want peak cylind= er=20 pressure at about 50 degrees ATDC. So the timing changing with RPM would be= =20 ideal. So, late timing may allow mixture still burning to arrive at the EGT= =20 probe. This is not an accurate look at combustion temperatures. So if you s= ee=20 high EGTs reduce the timing
for a second or so and see if the EGT goes up. Then bump it up a few= =20 degrees and see if it goes down. Simple.
 
For take off and climb enough timing and mixtures in the 12s, EGTs in = the=20 16s or lower. Once at cruise altitude you can lean quickly through bes= t=20 power to lean of peak EGT. Best power is too lean and produces the damaged= =20 seals, and a better chance to detonate the engine. So you stay rich of best= =20 power or lean of best power. Once at a stable speed and lean of peak EGT, y= ou=20 can try adding some more timing, because lean mixtures burn more slowly.
 
For every RPM and mixture, there is an ideal advance setting. Find it = by=20 watching the tachometer. This changes each day with OAT and barometric. Tun= ing=20 errors while lean of peak will not damage the engine. Tuning errors while r= ich=20 of peak may damage the engine.
Lean of peak means less fuel being burned.Less power being produced. L= ower=20 coolant and oil temperatures, and lower top speed.
The less fuel being burned is the feature you are looking for.
 
Think like the engine......be the engine.......................
 
Perhaps Tracy or Mr.Leonard could publish their procedures?
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 12/10/2013 8:26:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 bhughes@qnsi.net writes:
=
Neil

This link has really good operating targets for our engine. They mea= sure=20 EGT at 3 inches. 

Bobby 

http://www.starmazda.com/competitors/2012/resources/2Aug201= 2RenesisTutorial.pdf

Sent=20 from my iPad

On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:44 PM, "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:

<= /DIV>
MT electric three blade.  I don't know what my peak EGT is at= high=20 power but it should occur at 14.7 F/A. I would be surprised if it was m= uch=20 over 1700F. 

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:28 PM, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>= =20 wrote:

 
From: Bobb= y J.=20 Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:23 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix
 
Neil
 
My EGT is usually around 1660 at 38", 7100 rpm, 12.5 F/A.  = I=20 have seen one rotor go to 1700 with an injector imbalance too rich. O= ne=20 other time with a fouled plug. I think fuel was burning in the exhaus= t=20 manifold.
 
.80 oz per gallon.
 
Bobby Hughes
Renesis 
 


Sent from my iPad

On Dec 10, 2013, at 6:10 PM, "Neil Unger" <neil.unger@bigpond.com>= =20 wrote:

All,
          finally= =20 flying again, but my prop is too big. It is a 70=E2=80=9D dia by 90= inch=20 pitch.  Max revs on takeoff is about 6800 and the EGT is pushi= ng=20 over the 1850 degrees.  Obviously the prop is too big as revs = are=20 restricted and the motor is working too hard hence the EGT.  W= hat=20 size props are you people running??  2 rotor renesis. =20 Neil.
 
From: David=20 Leonard
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:12 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2 cycle premix
 
I use the same mix, but at closer to 1 oz/gal.  Why? = ;=20 That is what Tracy does.  Dont think it is very critical over = the=20 short term.  I have gone without oil for a tank or two when I= =20 didn't plan well.  I have also put multi-weight aviation engin= e oil=20 in (at .5 oz/gal) on one occasion when I forgot to bring along any= =20 2-stroke oil at all.
 
Dave Leonard

On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Bill Bra= dburry=20 <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I use = the=20 same mix as Dennis but at the rate of 3/4 oz/gal in non-ethanol a= uto=20 gas.  My engine is a Renesis with 70 flight=20 hours.

 

Bill= =20 B

 

From:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Clouduster
Sent: Friday, July 26, 201= 3 9:17=20 AM


To: Rotary motors i= n=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 2= cycle=20 premix

 

I use a 50 - 50 mix of MM and WalMart 2= stroke=20 @ 0.50 oz/ gal. Mixed in auto gas.  My engine is a Renesis w= ith=20 500 +hrs.

 

<= /DIV>

Dennis H.

Sent from my=20 iPad


On J= ul 25,=20 2013, at 16:29, ARGOLDMAN@aol.c= om=20 wrote:

Greetings=20 all,

 

For those of you = who are=20 actually flying and have some time on your rotaries and are usi= ng=20 Pre-mix 2 cycle oil:

 

1)  what oil= are=20 you using

2)   wh= y that=20 brand

3)   wh= at=20 ratios are you using

4  &nbs= p;=20 where is the best place to get=20 it

 

Thanks<= /U>

 

Rich

<= /BLOCKQUOTE>


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY<= BR>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=
http://RotaryRoster.net=20
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